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    I personally think we stay.
    We have put so much blood sweat and tears into it. Why for nothing?
    And is for a reasonable cause, dont you think?
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    It would be immoral to leave them in the state that they are in, I believe they were doing better before in some says. We should stay there till the state is safe, and the average civilian can rest at night without the fear of mass anarchy!
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    (Original post by Zophixan)
    It would be immoral to leave them in the state that they are in, I believe they were doing better before in some says. We should stay there till the state is safe, and the average civilian can rest at night without the fear of mass anarchy!
    But not in Iraq, there we're best of just leaving the ****ers to it.
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    Maybe dialogue should be started?
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    Maybe dialogue should be started?
    With who? Taliban? Al Q? Who?


    (JFTR, it apparently already is )
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    (Original post by Renal)
    With who? Taliban? Al Q? Who?


    (JFTR, it apparently already is )
    Yeh the taliban, we talked with the IRA and it worked (well kind of)

    PS what is JFTR?
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    NO NEGOTIATION WITH TERRORISTS.

    The IRA actually were not barbaric with their own people, just other people. The Taliban and AQ are the worst form of barbarians. We should have finished the job at the beginning (I read an article saying SAS were poised to capture Osama but didn't go in because they had to wait for delta force, who weren't ready :|)
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    Yeh the taliban, we talked with the IRA and it worked (well kind of)
    Didn't work too well for these two. :s:

    But yes, we should engage with the Taliban but what is there to offer them? The people on the ground in the 'stan don't want them there, they don't want to be involved in government, it's hard to see what would placate them.




    PS what is JFTR?
    Just for the record.
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    You can't justify something by saying, "We've come all this way . . ." You have to act for the best possible outcome at each individual moment. The past is irrelavant.

    Anyway, I think it's high time wel left the country to repair itself. 76 innocent women and children, for example, were killed yesterday alone. That never got reported. The cost in blood is way too high.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    But not in Iraq, there we're best of just leaving the ****ers to it.
    are they not people too? how would you feel if the situation was the other way around and an iraqi showed such dismissal of the loss of human life that occurs EVERY DAY, and your average person on the street had nothing to do with the creation of war, yet there family are the ones dying in them by the dozen. if the war created by a foreign invasion has turned your neighbours, friends and family against each other. if kidnapping became a way of life and if atending a funeral was more regular then attending college or school, or even the time elecetricity stays on. have you even given a spare thought to the iraqis or are you absordbed by the medias portrayal tragic loss of british soldiers, a disproportionate loss may i say to iraqi civilians, hence turned the average iraqi into a crazy mullah hellbent on destroying the west?

    i felt i needed to type that cos your comment hurt,

    and the guy who said IRA not barbaric to their own, what distorted view have you been fed?? from what ive heard it was a your with us or against us policy, enforced by murder
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    (Original post by shamrock92)
    Anyway, I think it's high time wel left the country to repair itself. 76 innocent women and children, for example, were killed yesterday alone. That never got reported. The cost in blood is way too high.
    Is there any reason to suggest that it wouldn't have happened if the coalition had withdrawn the month (or even year) before?

    The cost in blood is high, but after the Taliban fell the Afghans were doomed to it, I'd be more concerned about the cost in blood to us.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    NO NEGOTIATION WITH TERRORISTS.
    /agree

    (Original post by Bagration)
    The IRA actually were not barbaric with their own people, just other people.
    I find that quite offensive. I friend of my Dad's is Irish and lived in Belfast in the troubles.

    One day the IRA came round asking for a £40 a month "protection" fee. He paid up that month but one of his neighbours didn't. His neighbour I should add was a 62 year old man at the time (mid 1974(?) this was I think).

    The IRA first smashed the old man's hands with a hammer and then put a Black & Decker drill through his kneecaps.

    This happened several times as people at first refused to pay up. Soon, however, people paid. By 1978 my Dad's friend was paying £100 a month. On a salary of about £250 a month.

    The old man had never said anything publicly, or privately, pro-British or anti-IRA, yet they still did that to him.

    The IRA were barbaric with everybody. Please never say that they were not. I have met this old man 2 times and I know that it happened.
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    (Original post by ZOIKA)
    are they not people too?...
    The upshot is that the situation in the 'stan at least appears salvageable. WRT Iraq, the coalition is loosing the political will to carry on, tribalism is increasing in Iraq and so is interfaction violence.



    i felt i needed to type that cos your comment hurt,
    Words on the internet? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    /agree


    I find that quite offensive. I friend of my Dad's is Irish and lived in Belfast in the troubles.

    One day the IRA came round asking for a £40 a month "protection" fee. He paid up that month but one of his neighbours didn't. His neighbour I should add was a 62 year old man at the time (mid 1974(?) this was I think).

    The IRA first smashed the old man's hands with a hammer and then put a Black & Decker drill through his kneecaps.

    This happened several times as people at first refused to pay up. Soon, however, people paid. By 1978 my Dad's friend was paying £100 a month. On a salary of about £250 a month.

    The old man had never said anything publicly, or privately, pro-British or anti-IRA, yet they still did that to him.

    The IRA were barbaric with everybody. Please never say that they were not. I have met this old man 2 times and I know that it happened.
    I agree ,Has everyone forgotten the bombs they placed in England (one of them was in Manchester in 1996 where many people died). However with dialogue it slowed and eventually stopped (in england anyway) and the same could happen in afganistan.
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    I find that quite offensive. I friend of my Dad's is Irish and lived in Belfast in the troubles.

    One day the IRA came round asking for a £40 a month "protection" fee. He paid up that month but one of his neighbours didn't. His neighbour I should add was a 62 year old man at the time (mid 1974(?) this was I think).

    The IRA first smashed the old man's hands with a hammer and then put a Black & Decker drill through his kneecaps.

    This happened several times as people at first refused to pay up. Soon, however, people paid. By 1978 my Dad's friend was paying £100 a month. On a salary of about £250 a month.

    The old man had never said anything publicly, or privately, pro-British or anti-IRA, yet they still did that to him.

    The IRA were barbaric with everybody. Please never say that they were not. I have met this old man 2 times and I know that it happened.
    I don't really have anything to say.
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    I agree ,Has everyone forgotten the bombs they placed in England (one of them was in Manchester in 1996 where many people died). However with dialogue it slowed and eventually stopped (in england anyway) and the same could happen in afganistan.
    Ok, whatever. I said that the IRA were at least only barbaric to their enemies, which upon reflection is quite untrue, but I don't think anyone has ever claimed the IRA were not barbaric towards their enemies.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Ok, whatever. I said that the IRA were at least only barbaric to their enemies, which upon reflection is quite untrue, but I don't think anyone has ever claimed the IRA were not barbaric towards their enemies.
    And still dialogue worked? If it worked on the barbaric IRA then it can work on the barbaric taliban.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    The upshot is that the situation in the 'stan at least appears salvageable. WRT Iraq, the coalition is loosing the political will to carry on, tribalism is increasing in Iraq and so is interfaction violence.



    Words on the internet? :rolleyes:
    go ahead you can roll your eyes , cant you use your brain a tiny little bit more , maybe JUST maybe people i care about ARE and WERE affected and dead, so you my friend are a total idiot. you know there is nothing wrong with having love for people you dont know, due to circumstance they are not your family or your friends. your one of the lucky ones where you were born or your parents were born have prevented you from losing people to a war. you havent come across amputees or war orphans , you have got jack all to do with the war, unless you r family are in the army, you know nothing about either war, only what the news and polticians tells you. they both have an agenda and you fail to see it. so please stop causing people offence, such as your IRA comments etc. go back to playing your 1st person shooter games and carry on gloryfying war...enjoy
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    (Original post by minimo156)
    And still dialogue worked? If it worked on the barbaric IRA then it can work on the barbaric taliban.
    Dialogue worked with Sinn Fein...
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    I don't really have anything to say.
    Bagration, don't take it badly. I was a bit too rude with my reply. It's just that I met the old guy 2 times before he died and he really was a lovely bloke. He was a retired builder when the IRA got him and was suplementing his small pension by working in a shop, something he had to stop after the attack.

    Ever since meeting him I have hated the IRA with a passion and I rather jumped on your comment. I apologise.
 
 
 
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