VR63 – Ministerial Report on Protests and COVID-19 from the Home Secretary

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Poll: Do you agree with the contents of the Ministerial Report?
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Of the Contrary, no. (17)
36.96%
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Andrew97
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#1
Report Thread starter 5 days ago
#1
R63 Ministerial Report on Protests and COVID-19 from the Home Secretary,

Mr Speaker, this government notes the concerns over the impact of protests on the potential to generate a second wave of COVID-19 in the population. This government further notes that people have long enjoyed the right to freedom of assembly.

However, this government recognises that we are in the midst of a public health crisis. Rights are not immutable and it times like these we must all sacrifice our rights to protect a higher right. The right to health.



Whilst we understand that people wish to make their voices heard on the issue of race equality, we believe that no protest can be truly socially distanced and that any such protest is in breach of social distancing guidelines. We are therefore commanding the police to breakup any and all protests on any issue until large groups are allowed to gather again. In recognition of the tradition of policing by consent in this country, we recommend that arrests and fines only be issued if crowds refuse to disperse and hope that the police follow the guidance. Police following of this guidance will be monitored in accordance with this House's wish to maintain consistency of policing.



Mr Speaker, I would also like to take the time to further condemn the acts of vandalism that have been committed by a minority of protestors and demonstrators. These acts undermine our cultural heritage and damage the open and frank debates that should happen about the past. We must view history through a lens and we cannot apply today's standards to people of the past.



This is a tough time for everyone, things are emotionally charged. The government understands but we must hang on and keep going. Otherwise, the three months of sacrifice we have already made will be for nought.



I commend this report to the House
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Theloniouss
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#2
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#2
Aye. Perhaps if police brutality were a serious issue in this country, I would be more sympathetic to the protesters but as it stands, there's not a significant enough reason for protest that we should sacrifice our health to allow the mass gatherings.
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r.uh
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#3
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What kind of irrelevant joke is this?

Firstly, the reason why we are still in this utterly ridiculous mess is because the government itself has been too slow and too reluctant to act in a swifter fashion from the very start.

Secondly, I do not recall the government being this "concerned" about public health when it's own officials (Dominic Cummings) decided to break lockdown rules or when thousands of people were literally allowed to go to beaches just yesterday without any checks or limits.

People have a democratic right to protest in a peaceful and law-abiding fashion. This government should be supportive of all such protests instead of proposing legislation that undermines such endeavours.

All this bill does is reveal the sheer ignorance that those on the Right have of BLM protests. They have never seen or been to a socially distanced protest and so resort to declaring that all protests should be made illegal.

This bill is utterly shameful and indicative of the veiled racism that continues to pervade its way through our society.

Vote no.
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Saracen's Fez
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#4
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#4
Given we're over a fortnight on from the protests (blimey, June has felt long!), is there any evidence for there having been a second wave?
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Miss Maddie
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#5
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#5
Easy nay!

The protests have been happening for over a month and there hasn't been a noticeable second peak. Mass gatherings don't risk public health and should be allowed. The report is stupid. It's impractical and near impossible to prevents protests and mass gatherings.
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r.uh
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#6
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#6
(Original post by Theloniouss)
Aye. Perhaps if police brutality were a serious issue in this country, I would be more sympathetic to the protesters but as it stands, there's not a significant enough reason for protest that we should sacrifice our health to allow the mass gatherings.
"Perhaps if police brutality was a serious issue" sorry what?

What kind of bubble are u living in? Is not the unjust arrest, abuse and literal death of BME people at the hands of the police not a serious issue?

Even Boris Johnson has admitted that more change is needed to address inequality in our society. Utterly disgraceful. For shame.
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Miss Maddie
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#7
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#7
(Original post by r.uh)
"Perhaps if police brutality was a serious issue" sorry what?

What kind of bubble are u living in? Is not the unjust arrest, abuse and literal death of BME people at the hands of the police not a serious issue?

Even Boris Johnson has admitted that more change is needed to address inequality in our society. Utterly disgraceful. For shame.
Death of anyone is a serious issue. When was the last time UK police unjustly killed a black person?
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Theloniouss
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#8
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#8
(Original post by Miss Maddie)
Death of anyone is a serious issue. When was the last time UK police unjustly killed a black person?
I was looking around for this, I think it depends pretty heavily on which accounts you believe. It was 5 or 10 years ago IIRC.
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04MR17
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#9
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#9
I apologies to the house on behalf of the Govetnment that the Government Covid-19 response banner was not added.

Aye.
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04MR17
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#10
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#10
(Original post by r.uh)
What kind of irrelevant joke is this?

Firstly, the reason why we are still in this utterly ridiculous mess is because the government itself has been too slow and too reluctant to act in a swifter fashion from the very start.

Secondly, I do not recall the government being this "concerned" about public health when it's own officials (Dominic Cummings) decided to break lockdown rules or when thousands of people were literally allowed to go to beaches just yesterday without any checks or limits.

People have a democratic right to protest in a peaceful and law-abiding fashion. This government should be supportive of all such protests instead of proposing legislation that undermines such endeavours.

All this bill does is reveal the sheer ignorance that those on the Right have of BLM protests. They have never seen or been to a socially distanced protest and so resort to declaring that all protests should be made illegal.

This bill is utterly shameful and indicative of the veiled racism that continues to pervade its way through our society.

Vote no.
This Ministerial Report does not make all protests illegal, nor is Dominic Cummings a member of the TSR Government. I agree that we could do more regarding beaches and have raised these points before in the house.
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04MR17
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Given we're over a fortnight on from the protests (blimey, June has felt long!), is there any evidence for there having been a second wave?
It might still be slightly too early to tell, given that those infected might only start to show symptoms after 2 weeks. It's also possible that the healthier people protesting will be relatively unaffected. Not notice or misdiagnose their symptoms and carry the virus to more vulnerable persons who would need treatment.
1
Cabin19
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#12
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#12
I am more concerned by the beaches being heaving that police are doing nothing about as opposed to the protests
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r.uh
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#13
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#13
(Original post by 04MR17)
This Ministerial Report does not make all protests illegal, nor is Dominic Cummings a member of the TSR Government. I agree that we could do more regarding beaches and have raised these points before in the house.
The report literally says:

"we believe that no protest can be truly socially distanced and that any such protest is in breach of social distancing guidelines. We are therefore commanding the police to breakup any and all protests on any issue until large groups are allowed to gather again."

" ANY AND ALL PROTESTS"
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Mainline421
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#14
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#14
Almost needless to say very strong no . The right to protest should be immutable otherwise it is completely undermined. Extremely concerning that the government of a "free" country would ever suggest that such a thing.

The government understands but we must hang on and keep going. Otherwise, the three months of sacrifice we have already made will be for nought.
Also while I don't want to derail this thread I must briefly dispute this. According to government and CMO the point of restrictions was prevent the NHS being over capacity, and it wasn't. So even if you supported the restrictions that wouldn't be the case at all as a result of these protests.
Last edited by Mainline421; 5 days ago
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Joleee
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#15
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#15
same as above.
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The Mogg
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#16
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#16
You don't get to take away the rights of others just to make yourself feel safe, so for that (and other reasons already explained by others) this is obviously getting a big fat Nope.
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Possibly this
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#17
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#17
Unfortunately this statement, whilst stumbling around some important points has also aspects which in my opinion make it irredeemable. This is just another example of blanket approaches being used to situations which affect different people differently due to their circumstances and does nothing of worth to actually solve any of the problems it attempts to solve. Plain and simple, nay.
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04MR17
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#18
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#18
(Original post by r.uh)
The report literally says:

"we believe that no protest can be truly socially distanced and that any such protest is in breach of social distancing guidelines. We are therefore commanding the police to breakup any and all protests on any issue until large groups are allowed to gather again."

" ANY AND ALL PROTESTS"
Yes, and unless you can find me a regulation or law that states that only illegal protests may be broken up it remains the case that the protests we are discussing have not been made illegal. Protestors will not be prosecuted with an offence because they haven't committed one and unless they're being violent the police wouldn't have grounds to arrest anybody. The report (as you so rightly point out) states that protests will be broken up, not that protestors will be arrested.

So I repeat: This MR does bot make all protests illegal.

The lawyers in the room are welcome to correct me here, but I do believe that under normal circumstances the police need to be given notice of a protest happening anyway, and need to approve it in order to block off necessary roads etc.

This is about public safety not politics.
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Mainline421
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#19
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#19
(Original post by 04MR17)
So I repeat: This MR does bot make all protests illegal.

The lawyers in the room are welcome to correct me here, but I do believe that under normal circumstances the police need to be given notice of a protest happening anyway, and need to approve it in order to block off necessary roads etc.

This is about public safety not politics.
First of all use of word all there is concerning all protests should treated equally from a legal perspective. Secondly the requirement to inform police only applies specifically to marches or where there is otherwise intent to obstruct the highway (and it's not a process of approval rather one of mitigation) Organisers of static protests need not inform the police.
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r.uh
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#20
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#20
(Original post by 04MR17)
Yes, and unless you can find me a regulation or law that states that only illegal protests may be broken up it remains the case that the protests we are discussing have not been made illegal. Protestors will not be prosecuted with an offence because they haven't committed one and unless they're being violent the police wouldn't have grounds to arrest anybody. The report (as you so rightly point out) states that protests will be broken up, not that protestors will be arrested.

So I repeat: This MR does bot make all protests illegal.

The lawyers in the room are welcome to correct me here, but I do believe that under normal circumstances the police need to be given notice of a protest happening anyway, and need to approve it in order to block off necessary roads etc.

This is about public safety not politics
So u can't actually challenge the substance of my argument (i.e. Socially distanced protests should go ahead without the police clamping down on them) so must engage in a semantic discussion.

I repeat this point again:

This bill is an utter joke. The govt should be ashamed of itself.
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