UK £ now regarded as 'emerging market' currency

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Wired_1800
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#81
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#81
(Original post by JSG29)
So you think we're going to be able to negotiate more favourable deals with the ROW than we had as a member of the EU despite voluntarily making ourselves a far smaller negotiating block?
Yes, i think so. We have a mature and dynamic market to engage with the rest of the world.
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Wired_1800
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#82
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(Original post by Napp)
Which ones exactly?
Bit of a faulty example though given neither would refuse to sell anything? The government in London would be the ones refusing by leveling tariffs.




For someone who claims to be a fan of democracy, you're really not a fan of it?
Economic muscles? Our financial services sector, mature market, safe place to do business etc.

I am a fan of democracy.
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imlikeahermit
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#83
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Obviously, I don't agree with those points. Outside the EU, we will able to flex our economic muscles. If Australia refuses to sell us wine or Germany refuse to sell cars, then we reach out to other markets.

We are already out of the EU, so it is high time you fall in line and support your nation.
Your spot on like. Just as we’ve seen in that trade deal with Lichtenstein... the EU are quivering at our economic might!

Jesus wept, the delusion is beyond the pail.
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Wired_1800
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#84
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Your spot on like. Just as we’ve seen in that trade deal with Lichtenstein... the EU are quivering at our economic might!

Jesus wept, the delusion is beyond the pail.
I think the major problem is that you implicitly think of the EU or other countries as enemies. That is why you you talk about economic might in such a derogatory manner. You have such hatred for this country that you don't believe that we are capable of standing on our own two feet and engage with the world without being an EU vassal state.
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imlikeahermit
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#85
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I think the major problem is that you implicitly think of the EU or other countries as enemies. That is why you you talk about economic might in such a derogatory manner. You have such hatred for this country that you don't believe that we are capable of standing on our own two feet and engage with the world without being an EU vassal state.
You seem to be under the illusion that erecting massive barriers to trade won't affect this country. I see no country as an enemy. I freely support immigration, which makes me a whole lot more tolerant than most Brexit voters.

Let me spell this out for you. You're right. We are not capable of standing on our own two feet. We have a vastly overestimated opinion of our own self importance.
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Wired_1800
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#86
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
You seem to be under the illusion that erecting massive barriers to trade won't affect this country. I see no country as an enemy. I freely support immigration, which makes me a whole lot more tolerant than most Brexit voters.

Let me spell this out for you. You're right. We are not capable of standing on our own two feet. We have a vastly overestimated opinion of our own self importance.
I dont think anybody is putting up barriers to trade. Leaving the EU is not putting up barriers to trade. We are open to engage and trade with any nation, but just dont want to be a vassal state of the European project.

It is very sad that you have such a low opinion of your country. Imagine how far we would have come from 2016, if the doubters and alarmists backed the country.
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Napp
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#87
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Economic muscles? Our financial services sector, mature market, safe place to do business etc.

I am a fan of democracy.
Those arent 'muscles' though given they cant exactly be used against countries. Never mind the simple fact that if you try to weaponise them you lose them.

Then why do you keep saying decidedly undemocratic things? "you will think this way or else"
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Wired_1800
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#88
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(Original post by Napp)
Those arent 'muscles' though given they cant exactly be used against countries. Never mind the simple fact that if you try to weaponise them you lose them.

Then why do you keep saying decidedly undemocratic things? "you will think this way or else"
Why do we have to use anything against any country? Why do we have to treat potential or existing trade partners as enemies?

This is one of the wrong views some people have against the UK. They see international engagement as being one country against another country, hence it is best to be part of a group and treat other countries poorly. I dont see it that way.

My point is that we have to move together as a nation. It is defeatist for groups within the country to actively go against the country. To think that there were some groups including MPs, who apparently campaigned to stay in the EU whilst the Government was negotiating an exit deal.
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Napp
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#89
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Why do we have to use anything against any country? Why do we have to treat potential or existing trade partners as enemies?

This is one of the wrong views some people have against the UK. They see international engagement as being one country against another country, hence it is best to be part of a group and treat other countries poorly. I dont see it that way.

My point is that we have to move together as a nation. It is defeatist for groups within the country to actively go against the country. To think that there were some groups including MPs, who apparently campaigned to stay in the EU whilst the Government was negotiating an exit deal.
Because you just said to...
Maybe not but it is a fact of life. Trade being zero sum by default in certain areas, such as food. For example, NZL's win in lamb quotas is Englands farmers loss.
So you want to 'go together as a nation' by forcefully silencing any dissenting opinion? Forgive me but that sounds frightfully stalinist. You are more than welcome to not agree with people who approve of EU membership but dismissing them as nothing but traitors is more than slightly beyond the pale.
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Wired_1800
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#90
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(Original post by Napp)
Because you just said to...
Maybe not but it is a fact of life. Trade being zero sum by default in certain areas, such as food. For example, NZL's win in lamb quotas is Englands farmers loss.
So you want to 'go together as a nation' by forcefully silencing any dissenting opinion? Forgive me but that sounds frightfully stalinist. You are more than welcome to not agree with people who approve of EU membership but dismissing them as nothing but traitors is more than slightly beyond the pale.
Trade does not have to be zero sum to me.

I welcome different opinions and views about the UK’s role in the world and membership of the European project. However, having an opinion is different to actively sabotaging a nation’s ability to engage with other parties. Why should we stand by and allow other people to sabotage or destroy our national interests, just because they fancy a visa-free holiday to Lisbon? We must move together with one voice, else the UK is doomed to fail and that will affect everyone.
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imlikeahermit
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#91
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Trade does not have to be zero sum to me.

I welcome different opinions and views about the UK’s role in the world and membership of the European project. However, having an opinion is different to actively sabotaging a nation’s ability to engage with other parties. Why should we stand by and allow other people to sabotage or destroy our national interests, just because they fancy a visa-free holiday to Lisbon? We must move together with one voice, else the UK is doomed to fail and that will affect everyone.
Na mate, I didn't vote for this. This isn't on me. When Boris' 'oven ready' deal was ready to cost us 6% of our GDP that wasn't on me. None of this, is on me, or other remain voters. I'm not moving with anyone. I've been told for so long now that I'm wrong, and that I must respect the decision. I won't, and I'm ready now to just sit back, watch and laugh as this country suffers.

We are making trade deals with countries that their total value of trade with us is so low it doesn't round up past three decimals. Tremendous on the government trade deal page how they've got us making a trade deal with Andorra or somewhere like that which is worth exactly 0.00% of trade. I don't know how they have the gumption.
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Napp
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#92
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Trade does not have to be zero sum to me.

I welcome different opinions and views about the UK’s role in the world and membership of the European project. However, having an opinion is different to actively sabotaging a nation’s ability to engage with other parties. Why should we stand by and allow other people to sabotage or destroy our national interests, just because they fancy a visa-free holiday to Lisbon? We must move together with one voice, else the UK is doomed to fail and that will affect everyone.
Not for you maybe but for the countries engaged it still is.
I trust i don't need to point out that what you just said, aside from being wrong, is contradiction in terms. Unless you really think a user on here is 'sabotaging' anything?
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Wired_1800
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#93
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(Original post by Napp)
Not for you maybe but for the countries engaged it still is.
I trust i don't need to point out that what you just said, aside from being wrong, is contradiction in terms. Unless you really think a user on here is 'sabotaging' anything?
I don't think anyone on here is actively sabotaging anything but during the negotiations and subsequent months, we had groups like some Remain MPs actively trying to sabotage the deal and try to remain.

I agree that countries try to protect their own interests, so we must do the same too. If Germany is fighting for German interests and France for French interests, but the UK has groups going against British and Northern Irish interests, then there is a major problem.
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Wired_1800
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#94
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Na mate, I didn't vote for this. This isn't on me. When Boris' 'oven ready' deal was ready to cost us 6% of our GDP that wasn't on me. None of this, is on me, or other remain voters. I'm not moving with anyone. I've been told for so long now that I'm wrong, and that I must respect the decision. I won't, and I'm ready now to just sit back, watch and laugh as this country suffers.

We are making trade deals with countries that their total value of trade with us is so low it doesn't round up past three decimals. Tremendous on the government trade deal page how they've got us making a trade deal with Andorra or somewhere like that which is worth exactly 0.00% of trade. I don't know how they have the gumption.
I understand and I apologise for how badly some remainers were treated. In hindsight, there should have been a period of reconciliation after Brexit to try to encourage remainers rather than attack them.

Unfortunately economic damage does not know who voted remain or leave. It would affect everyone if we dont get it right. It is for this reason, I strongly suggest that everyone should move with one voice. It is not China vs Leavers or US vs Remainers, it is the major players vs the UK and we have to stick together.

Yes, we are trying to get a deal with Andorra but also major players like US, China, Russia, Australia, South Africa, India etc.
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Napp
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I don't think anyone on here is actively sabotaging anything but during the negotiations and subsequent months, we had groups like some Remain MPs actively trying to sabotage the deal and try to remain.

I agree that countries try to protect their own interests, so we must do the same too. If Germany is fighting for German interests and France for French interests, but the UK has groups going against British and Northern Irish interests, then there is a major problem.
With all due respect but you have stated and implied this multiple times.
As is their democratic right, and job, to represent their constituents.

Not really, you don't have to like it but that is a fact of a free country. Not least of all because there is no definition of 'the national interest' written in stone. It is completely subjective between people. Rather a case of qed on this one to be honest.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Napp)
Im trying to remember where it was but i was reading an interesting report that came out of cabinet that one of the iterations of a trade deal being considered with NZ have the queer effect of slicing 0.01% of our GDP off :lol: (by dumping cheap lamb). People seem to forget that other countries are out for their own not to help Britain - least of all Aussie and NZL who are not going to prejudice their farmers for those in little England, nevermind the fact that many of these countries are competitors in various fields and will be looking where to stick the knife in - like America explicitly said it would.
Once you get past the misty eyed nostalgia many of the Brextremists have for a return to the good old days of the Commonwealth Preference, you soon realise that all of these countries are ruthless "in it for themselves" players and have no intention of giving the likes of Cummings and Frost a free ride. Nobody more so than the US, which intends to use any trade deal to trample us and claim us as a free colonial prize.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Yes, we are trying to get a deal with Andorra but also major players like US, China, Russia, Australia, South Africa, India etc.
None of which could ever be better than the deals the EU already has with them.

It's a fantastic dreamworld Brexiteers live in that they imagine the US or China will be willing to give better terms to dear old Blighty than they would to the whole EU. :rolleyes:
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
None of which could ever be better than the deals the EU already has with them.

It's a fantastic dreamworld Brexiteers live in that they imagine the US or China will be willing to give better terms to dear old Blighty than they would to the whole EU. :rolleyes:
It does not have to be either EU or the UK though. China or the US can have deals with the UK and also the EU.

Why do some remainers have such a low view of the UK? If trade negotiators from the US, China, India, Brazil etc read forums like TSR, they would be so glad to see that the UK is as divided as ever.
Last edited by Wired_1800; 1 week ago
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Wired_1800
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#99
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(Original post by Napp)
With all due respect but you have stated and implied this multiple times.
As is their democratic right, and job, to represent their constituents.

Not really, you don't have to like it but that is a fact of a free country. Not least of all because there is no definition of 'the national interest' written in stone. It is completely subjective between people. Rather a case of qed on this one to be honest.
It is a free country and I respect different views. However, I don't appreciate some groups trying to sabotage or go against national interests. Why do we have to be an EU vassal state? Have we fallen so low that we are unable to engage at the top table without holding on to the coat-tails of Europe? It is depressing to see such comments implicitly affirm it.
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Napp
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
It is a free country and I respect different views. However, I don't appreciate some groups trying to sabotage or go against national interests. Why do we have to be an EU vassal state? Have we fallen so low that we are unable to engage at the top table without holding on to the coat-tails of Europe? It is depressing to see such comments implicitly affirm it.
Again, who are you to dictate 'national interests'?
We were never a 'vassal state'
Umm yes actually, Britain hasnt been top tier for decades. As opposed to 2nd rank. There's nothing implicit about it, it is a statement of fact.
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