Does women taking advantage of the patriarchy work against feminism?

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Corps
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To put things very simply, it was put to me that women that partake in prostitution or even just know how to use their body to their advantage or to make their voices heard (i.e. create a platform), somehow undermines the feminist ideals.
However, I feel that this only goes to show that patriarchy is a problem for all groups of society and equality means that anyone can make their own choices, whether that’s prostitution or becoming a monk.
What’s your take?
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mazenod
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Prostitution goes against feminism since it involves women objectifying their own bodies, but it feeds on male sexual desire, no level of social equality can change the fact that some men will pay for prostitutes since complete social equality will not affect the male sex drive.

People can still make their own choices with how the world is today.
Last edited by mazenod; 3 days ago
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lucycowell
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Feminist ideals is everyone being equal and not being judged for their choices. Women/people who prostitute or strip or anything similar are making their own decisions and white cis men constantly use their body and privilege (without always knowing) to make there voices heard and they are heard more often/louder than others, so any other minority creating their own platform should be respected and celebrated.
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Corps
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(Original post by mazenod)
Prostitution goes against feminism since it involves women objectifying their own bodies, but it feeds on male sexual desire, no level of social equality can change the fact that some men will pay for prostitutes since complete social equality will not affect the male sex drive.

People can still make their own choices with how the world is today.
While I understand what you’re trying to demonstrate, knowing that you’re going to be objectified is not really the same as objectifying yourself.
What do you mean about people being able to make their own choices, I mean when inequality leads to unequal opportunities and therefore limited choices? Everyone certainly benefits from freedom of thought and autonomy, but to what extent does this function in reality?
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lucycowell
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(Original post by mazenod)
Prostitution goes against feminism since it involves women objectifying their own bodies, but it feeds on male sexual desire, no level of social equality can change the fact that some men will pay for prostitutes since complete social equality will not affect the male sex drive.

People can still make their own choices with how the world is today.
Sex work empowers and gives many women independence, it does not objectify them if it is consensual work.
The autonomy theory of feminism literally states that women have the right to "stand on their own, and their own decisions and pursue their own notion of a life lived well".
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mazenod
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(Original post by Corps)
While I understand what you’re trying to demonstrate, knowing that you’re going to be objectified is not really the same as objectifying yourself.
What do you mean about people being able to make their own choices, I mean when inequality leads to unequal opportunities and therefore limited choices? Everyone certainly benefits from freedom of thought and autonomy, but to what extent does this function in reality?
Well, more generally, my issue with feminism is that it looks at an unrealistic ideal society where women and men both have the same opportunities, pay, social status, etc. But the reason that it’s unrealistic is because a) Women and Men are different, and shouldn’t be treated the same. As imperfect as it is, men are physically superior in most aspects. b) Men and Women view each other differently by instinct, and so, although imperfect again, they should be treated differently. As for prostitutes, they are literally using their own body for money, so sure people are objectifying them, but they are objectifying themselves by using their bodies as a tool to earn money.
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Corps
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(Original post by mazenod)
Well, more generally, my issue with feminism is that it looks at an unrealistic ideal society where women and men both have the same opportunities, pay, social status, etc. But the reason that it’s unrealistic is because a) Women and Men are different, and shouldn’t be treated the same. As imperfect as it is, men are physically superior in most aspects. b) Men and Women view each other differently by instinct, and so, although imperfect again, they should be treated differently. As for prostitutes, they are literally using their own body for money, so sure people are objectifying them, but they are objectifying themselves by using their bodies as a tool to earn money.
But bricklayers aren’t objectifying themselves when they use their bodies, do manual labour to earn a wage. In a world where women being assaulted and sexually harassed is so common, consenting to be paid for such a service doesn’t seem like they’re necessarily objectifying themselves.
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Issakatie
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Some may split up feminism in multiple ways and denominations. One will basically keep things how they are but say it's okay because the women are choosing to do it, ie women have freedom of choice and opportunity in everything women choose to be sex workers therefore some women choose to objectify and sexualise themselves. Nothing changes.

Another form of feminism would go against this and would truly break the patriarchy, and say that women shouldn't objectify themselves, ie being a sex worker is wrong because you are continuing patriarchy and perpetuating views of women as sex objects and unequal and not really changing anything. This would probably go against freedom of choice because it would say some choices are the wrong choices.
Last edited by Issakatie; 3 days ago
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mazenod
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(Original post by Corps)
But bricklayers aren’t objectifying themselves when they use their bodies, do manual labour to earn a wage. In a world where women being assaulted and sexually harassed is so common, consenting to be paid for such a service doesn’t seem like they’re necessarily objectifying themselves.
I do see your point, but for me there is a fine line between bricklaying and prostitution that I feel makes the difference. Lol
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Mad_Dog_Graveson
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The patriarchy doesn’t exist. It’s a theory cooked up by middle class women who had nothing better to do with their lives.
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Corps
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(Original post by Mad_Dog_Graveson)
The patriarchy doesn’t exist. It’s a theory cooked up by middle class women who had nothing better to do with their lives.
How about toxic masculinity and sexism?
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Issakatie
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(Original post by Mad_Dog_Graveson)
The patriarchy doesn’t exist. It’s a theory cooked up by middle class women who had nothing better to do with their lives.
Do you not think sexism exists? ugh yannoe historically women were the repressed and 'inferior' sex?
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Mad_Dog_Graveson
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(Original post by Issakatie)
Do you not think sexism exists? ugh yannoe historically women were the repressed and 'inferior' sex?
That’s was in the past. I do believe sexism exists, but people should stop pretending they are victims when they are not. It devalues the real victims. People nowadays, especially the middle class, want to be victims. They should be grateful for what they have, there are people suffering in the world and they care about is non issues like the patriarchy and LGBT claptrap
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Mad_Dog_Graveson
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(Original post by Corps)
How about toxic masculinity and sexism?
Sexism does exist, but toxic masculinity doesn’t. I think the opposite is true. Men are too feminine nowadays. I think most females would agree with me on this.
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Corps
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(Original post by Mad_Dog_Graveson)
That’s was in the past. I do believe sexism exists, but people should stop pretending they are victims when they are not. It devalues the real victims. People nowadays, especially the middle class, want to be victims. They should be grateful for what they have, there are people suffering in the world and they care about is non issues like the patriarchy and LGBT claptrap
Just because things are better, doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement. Just because overt racism is no longer as big of an issue, doesn’t mean it’s gone.
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mazenod
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(Original post by Mad_Dog_Graveson)
Sexism does exist, but toxic masculinity doesn’t. I think the opposite is true. Men are too feminine nowadays. I think most females would agree with me on this.
A brave general statement, but not representative of everyone, since not every man is too feminine. Toxic masculinity exists as much as toxic feminism, it happens when people try and enforce their views
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Joleee
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why do you think women result to prostitution(?).
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mazenod
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Corps

Why do I have to agree with both sides of this debate xD
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Corps
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(Original post by mazenod)
Corps

Why do I have to agree with both sides of this debate xD
It’s a very broad and complex debate.
Lots of branches and stuff. ☂️
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LordFahid
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(Original post by Corps)
How about toxic masculinity and sexism?
There is no such thing as toxic masculinity
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