Bame students - the attainment gap

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I don't know, ask the anonymously graded exams that do not ask for a race or name, just your Student ID.
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SteveyStack
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(Original post by EvenAngrierZig)
the EXAMS are anonmously graded, but every student's overall score can be compared.
So just to try and understand what you are saying, are you saying that BAME students on the same degree platform on average get worse grades?

And this is not because of racism due to anonymous marking ales it is at the teaching level which is resulting in BAME students taking in less?
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SteveyStack
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Genuine questions and not trying to have a go btw. Just a little confused as to what your point is

(Original post by EvenAngrierZig)
the EXAMS are anonmously graded, but every student's overall score can be compared.
Genuine questions and not trying to have a go btw. Just a little confused as to what your point is
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Student 999
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(Original post by peterbearneitv)
As a BAME student, how concerned are you that, however much you put into your studies, you're statistically less likely to achieve a First or 2:1 degree than your white counterparts? The attainment gap continues to be one of the most pressing issues in higher education. I am looking to film and interview students from the Midlands or Midlands universities about this for a series
I don’t see how this is an issue, exams are graded anonymously so the only reason why BAME students are statistically less likely to achieve a degree are because there are a greater percentage of academically-able white students.
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Legomenon
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Somehow I don't believe that Asians are less likely to attain high grades...
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Student 999
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(Original post by Voldemort_)
What, no?

Teaching is nothing to do with bad BAME student results. It's because on average blacks have a lower IQ than other races. This is being reflected in the data.
Even though this may come across offensive but typically there is a far lesser academic focus around black minority groups thus resulting to lower grades.
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by EvenAngrierZig)
I just think grouping asians and blacks and everyone else into one group 'BAME' is just wrong. East asians are completely different to Ethiopians, for example.

I reckon asians alone would be getting much higher results if they weren't being grouped with blacks (just my opinion).
If that was the case then maybe its not a race issue but a cultural issue?
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peterbearneitv
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For some background info - to give you an idea of the context to my report - take a look at the following. It may explain better ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/u...hnic-disparity

https://www.soas.ac.uk/bame-attainme...file140448.pdf
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by Student 999)
Even though this may come across offensive but typically there is a far lesser academic focus around black minority groups thus resulting to lower grades.
Have you got evidence to suppor this?
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by Voldemort_)
No it's a race issue.

But the issue is with blacks specifically, not with asians.
How is it a race issue, asians and brown people are also experiencing racism. But in their culture, they are embedded to study and study in order to gain high grades. It could also be argued that they study more that the average white person but still gain similar grades...
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Student 999
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(Original post by bingbong9214)
How is it a race issue, asians and brown people are also experiencing racism. But in their culture, they are embedded to study and study in order to gain high grades. It could also be argued that they study more that the average white person but still gain similar grades...
I disagree with your final point, in my opinion asians are able to study less but gain higher grades than the average white person since they’re naturally more intelligent
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by Student 999)
I disagree with your final point, in my opinion asians are able to study less but gain higher grades than the average white person since they’re naturally more intelligent
This is wrong, no human is more naturally intelligent because of their race. Based on your opinion 1 billion of the Indians who are poor are more intelligent than a middle class white person. I don't believe that people are naturally more intelligent as well. This is obviously wrong. The fact is, if you work hard and study hard you will get decent grades. Just like if you practice playing a musical instrument for hours a day you will be good at it. My point being, is in an average asian/ indian household, the focus of their children is to study, study, study. If you don't study enough, there are severe consequences etc. In an average black household, the focus is not always studying and its the same for white people as well. I'm not saying that there are not any intelligent black people thats not the case, but those intelligent black people study hard. It really isn't a race issue, if it was then other races apart from white people would suffer as well, but they don't.
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excitedpresent
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(Original post by bingbong9214)
How is it a race issue, asians and brown people are also experiencing racism. But in their culture, they are embedded to study and study in order to gain high grades. It could also be argued that they study more that the average white person but still gain similar grades...
Studying alone isn't enough to achieve higher grades. by the time we're at uni our brains are nearly fully developed, we've almost reached our full potential. Some student's intelligence potential, even at max, simply isn't enough to reach the top grades.

Where is the evidence that BAME study more but get similar grades? It seems far fetched.

It's a race issue becuse the wording BAME gap makes it a racial issue? BAME is after a racial grouping category.
Is it really just about culture or are other factors at play?
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excitedpresent
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(Original post by bingbong9214)
This is wrong, no human is more naturally intelligent because of their race. Based on your opinion 1 billion of the Indians who are poor are more intelligent than a middle class white person. I don't believe that people are naturally more intelligent as well. This is obviously wrong. The fact is, if you work hard and study hard you will get decent grades. Just like if you practice playing a musical instrument for hours a day you will be good at it. My point being, is in an average asian/ indian household, the focus of their children is to study, study, study. If you don't study enough, there are severe consequences etc. In an average black household, the focus is not always studying and its the same for white people as well. I'm not saying that there are not any intelligent black people thats not the case, but those intelligent black people study hard. It really isn't a race issue, if it was then other races apart from white people would suffer as well, but they don't.
I'm not sure what the IQ data is regarding Indian intelligence. But east asians are renowned for being highly intelligent on average (as well as jews).

It's not the case that every single person who works hard and studies hard will get good grades. There is a limit based on your IQ or intelligence. For example, someone with an IQ between 90-100 would struggle a LOT to get decent grades. No matter how much they study, they will not be able to retain the information because of the limits of their IQ.

I think it's a very strong misconception that if you work hard, you will achieve. For many, that does work but it's not the case for everyone.

Have you ever considered that intelligent black people aren't intelligent because they study but because they have a disposition for intelligence which encourages them to study harder to achieve?
Studying and doing well in exams does not reflect intelligence (even though intelligent people do well in them), it reflects a strong abillity to regurgitate information.
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by excitedpresent)
Studying alone isn't enough to achieve higher grades. by the time we're at uni our brains are nearly fully developed, we've almost reached our full potential. Some student's intelligence potential, even at max, simply isn't enough to reach the top grades.

Where is the evidence that BAME study more but get similar grades? It seems far fetched.

It's a race issue becuse the wording BAME gap makes it a racial issue? BAME is after a racial grouping category.
Is it really just about culture or are other factors at play?
According to studies, your brain only fully develops when you're 25, most people start Uni at 18 and so have plenty of time and expand their knowledge. And studying alone is enough to achieve higher grades (No idea why you think its not), if its not the case then there is not point learning is there? I've mentioned this before, but its like playing a musical instrument, you can only get good at it if you practice. Very few people are just gonna be able to play advanced pieces on an instrument without practising are they?
I do think there is a bias towards White people when comparing them to BAME, but I do believe that if the culture promote vigorous studying then there would be a significant difference.
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justjas33
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(Original post by Voldemort_)
No it's a race issue.

But the issue is with blacks specifically, not with asians.
I really don’t appreciate your tone. Maybe you have a bit of a problem aside from what this thread is discussing? But anyway, I’ve been reading your comments throughout this thread and I’d love to see some actual data for all you’ve been saying. Eg: “Asians and blacks clearly have a huge different in it and achievement ability.”
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excitedpresent
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(Original post by bingbong9214)
According to studies, your brain only fully develops when you're 25, most people start Uni at 18 and so have plenty of time and expand their knowledge. And studying alone is enough to achieve higher grades (No idea why you think its not), if its not the case then there is not point learning is there? I've mentioned this before, but its like playing a musical instrument, you can only get good at it if you practice. Very few people are just gonna be able to play advanced pieces on an instrument without practising are they?
I do think there is a bias towards White people when comparing them to BAME, but I do believe that if the culture promote vigorous studying then there would be a significant difference.
Sure brain is FULLY developed at 25, but by 18 it's still very much developed; it has lots of room for plasticity still yes, but it is mostly developed nonetheless.

Do you really think if someone with an IQ of 80 tried to study, they would achieve higher grades? If you have a good IQ, the yes studying will allow you to achieve good grades. But it's not the case for everyone. The IQ is the limiting factor of your achievements from studying.

I'm not saying practise and studying consistently aren't important, of course they are. Some have to study more than others to get good grades as well, and that's because some have lower intelligence than others.
There's no bias towards white. The only bias is biological, whites on average have higher IQs than some other groups. That's all it is.
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excitedpresent
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(Original post by justjas33)
I really don’t appreciate your tone. Maybe you have a bit of a problem aside from what this thread is discussing? But anyway, I’ve been reading your comments throughout this thread and I’d love to see some actual data for all you’ve been saying. Eg: “Asians and blacks clearly have a huge different in it and achievement ability.”
Tbh I think the guy clearly has a bone to pick
But he isn't completely wrong. Data does show that there is a gap in black and east asian iqs.We don't know whether that's due to envrionmental or genetic reasons though.
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by excitedpresent)
I'm not sure what the IQ data is regarding Indian intelligence. But east asians are renowned for being highly intelligent on average (as well as jews).

It's not the case that every single person who works hard and studies hard will get good grades. There is a limit based on your IQ or intelligence. For example, someone with an IQ between 90-100 would struggle a LOT to get decent grades. No matter how much they study, they will not be able to retain the information because of the limits of their IQ.

I think it's a very strong misconception that if you work hard, you will achieve. For many, that does work but it's not the case for everyone.

Have you ever considered that intelligent black people aren't intelligent because they study but because they have a disposition for intelligence which encourages them to study harder to achieve?
Studying and doing well in exams does not reflect intelligence (even though intelligent people do well in them), it reflects a strong abillity to regurgitate information.
First of all, I think you have a huge misconception that high IQ means you're going to get perfect grades. Thats far from the truth. IQ only measures some form of intelligence and does not represent the broader definitions of human intelligence such as creativity etc, so your argument about IQ is wrong.
Heres a link that I think you should read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intell...20intelligence.
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bingbong9214
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(Original post by excitedpresent)
Sure brain is FULLY developed at 25, but by 18 it's still very much developed; it has lots of room for plasticity still yes, but it is mostly developed nonetheless.

Do you really think if someone with an IQ of 80 tried to study, they would achieve higher grades? If you have a good IQ, the yes studying will allow you to achieve good grades. But it's not the case for everyone. The IQ is the limiting factor of your achievements from studying.

I'm not saying practise and studying consistently aren't important, of course they are. Some have to study more than others to get good grades as well, and that's because some have lower intelligence than others.
There's no bias towards white. The only bias is biological, whites on average have higher IQs than some other groups. That's all it is.
Theres still 7 years for a brain to develop, thats a lot of time and a lot of development. I have addressed your point about IQ in another post, but IQ doesn't automatically reflect intelligence. Donald Trump is claimed to have a very high IQ, but lets be honest a lot of us don't consider him intelligent do we. IQ doesn't accurately represent the complete Human intelligence, I think thats where you have a bad misconception there.
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