IbeIC123
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Views on David starkey after what he said
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ChrisW99
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He is like a Trident missile sent to obliterate the Wokerati.
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L i b
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Utterly mental. Irresistible viewing.
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PTMalewski
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What did he say?
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IbeIC123
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
What did he say?
“Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain”
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Vapordave
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(Original post by IbeIC123)
“Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain”
Lovely.
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the bear
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fun fact: He is Ringo's Dad
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by IbeIC123)
“Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain”
1. This was five years ago.
2. Genocide as defined in Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide specifically states that genocide is extermination of a group, so he is not technically wrong.

The problem is, you don't know the conventions, and you get offended because you understand statements differently to trained academics who state them.
Last edited by PTMalewski; 4 weeks ago
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Vapordave
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
1. This was five years ago.
2. Genocide as defined in Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide specifically states that genocide is extermination of a group, so he is not technically wrong.
I don't think that I've ever heard anyone suggest that slavery was genocide, but the aftermath is comparable to that of genocide in intensity.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by IbeIC123)
Views on David starkey after what he said
Fitzwilliam has got its GovBod on Wednesday. I'd be amazed if they didn't vote to remove his Hon. Fellowship. Why they ever wanted some puffed-up tosser as a fellow of the college was always beyond me anyway, but it's Fitzwilliam: they've got some funny ideas up there.
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PTMalewski
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(Original post by Daveological)
I don't think that I've ever heard anyone suggest that slavery was genocide, but the aftermath is comparable to that of genocide in intensity.
If you choose to redefine genocide. I don't know what is the English language source of the word, but the international law is pretty strict on that it means extermination, that is you physically destroy all or as many people of a group as possible.

Slavery did not exterminate groups. On the contrary, it made several groups colonising continents they would have probably never got to on their own. Of course there were nasty things related to it, but you can't say that travelling isn't travelling, because people got killed while travelling.
Last edited by PTMalewski; 4 weeks ago
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Vapordave
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
If you choose to redefine genocide. I don't know what is the English language source of the word, but the international law is pretty strict on that it means extermination, that is you physically destroy all or as many people of a group as possible.

Slavery did not exterminate groups. On the contrary, it made several groups colonising continents they would have probably never got to on their own. Of course there were nasty things related to it, but you can't say that travelling isn't travelling, because people got killed while travelling.
"but the aftermath is comparable to that of genocide in intensity"

Read it again.

As we're talking semantics, the use of the word 'colonise' in reference to forced migration is questionable.
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the bear
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oh well at least we still have Ms Worsley to educate us
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IbeIC123
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
1. This was five years ago.
2. Genocide as defined in Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide specifically states that genocide is extermination of a group, so he is not technically wrong.

The problem is, you don't know the conventions, and you get offended because you understand statements differently to trained academics who state them.
5 years isn’t a day
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FRS500
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I agree with Dave tbh (Daveological).

I'd argue that slavery was inherently genocidal.

Do you really believe the systematic working to death and extrajudicial killing of slaves was anything BUT extermination?

Throwing slaves off the sides of ships... just look at the atrocities committed in Belgian Congo under King Leopold.

You don't need to delve into the nitty-gritty of semantics to realize that slavery and all the other things arising from it were shi**y AS HELL.
(Original post by PTMalewski)
If you choose to redefine genocide. I don't know what is the English language source of the word, but the international law is pretty strict on that it means extermination, that is you physically destroy all or as many people of a group as possible.

Slavery did not exterminate groups. On the contrary, it made several groups colonising continents they would have probably never got to on their own. Of course there were nasty things related to it, but you can't say that travelling isn't travelling, because people got killed while travelling.
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IbeIC123
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#16
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(Original post by PTMalewski)
1. This was five years ago.
2. Genocide as defined in Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide specifically states that genocide is extermination of a group, so he is not technically wrong.

The problem is, you don't know the conventions, and you get offended because you understand statements differently to trained academics who state them.
International law is a concept isn’t really set in stone basically it doesn’t exist
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Vapordave
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(Original post by FRS500)
I agree with Dave tbh (Daveological).

I'd argue that slavery was inherently genocidal.

Do you really believe the systematic working to death and extrajudicial killing of slaves was anything BUT extermination?

Throwing slaves off the sides of ships... just look at the atrocities committed in Belgian Congo under King Leopold.

You don't need to delve into the nitty-gritty of semantics to realize that slavery and all the other things arising from it were shi**y AS HELL.
PRSOM
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Napp
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(Original post by IbeIC123)
“Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain”
Somewhat crass but not wrong.
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gjd800
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#19
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Fitzwilliam has got its GovBod on Wednesday. I'd be amazed if they didn't vote to remove his Hon. Fellowship. Why they ever wanted some puffed-up tosser as a fellow of the college was always beyond me anyway, but it's Fitzwilliam: they've got some funny ideas up there.
He has a track record of chronic gobshitery,I dunno how anyone is surprised
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Daveological)
I don't think that I've ever heard anyone suggest that slavery was genocide, but the aftermath is comparable to that of genocide in intensity.
Uh, alright, but Starkey didn't say 'slavery was not comparable to genocide in intensity', did he? (Whatever you mean by 'intensity' here.)

He said it wasn't genocidal, which it quite obviously wasn't. Genocide and race-based slavery are sort of contradictory pursuits, given that if you exterminate a race you can't very well force them to work for you.

It's clear what Starkey's point was, and it was right.

I guess a lot of upset has probably come out of his use of 'damn blacks' in the sentence. That was infelicitous phrasing. However, I think a fair viewer who actually sees the clip will realise that the 'damn' was meant as a general intensifier, rather than as a part of a derogatory term for black people.
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