England, next Euros

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NJA
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Can we reasonably expect England to get to the semi-finals?
Has anything qualitatively changed since the previous 50 years (summary here)
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daveymcloughlin
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(Original post by NJA)
Can we reasonably expect England to get to the semi-finals?
Has anything qualitatively changed since the previous 50 years (summary here)
Why would we care about getting to the semis?
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IanDangerously
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(Original post by NJA)
Can we reasonably expect England to get to the semi-finals?
Has anything qualitatively changed since the previous 50 years (summary here)
A lot has changed in the past 50 years. The current crop of young players coming out of top academies in England is the best I’ve seen in my lifetime.

It’s been about 15 years now since the blood and thunder 4-4-2 English football started to be phased out so the kids coming through now have seen and played the modern European style of football which gives them a better chance of competing with other top sides who play the same way. The effects of huge investment in academies by the top clubs, the EPPP and the restructuring of the reserves league have all started to work. Top signings from abroad often struggling to adapt to the Premier League (and hyperinflation in the transfer market) has led to a focus on developing home grown talent.

Players like Trent, Gomes, CHO, Abraham, Wan Bissaka, Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho, Mount, Williams, Saka etc are only going to get better over the next 2-3 years.

England will have enough talented players to win major trophies in this generation providing they have a top manager helping them to outsmart their opponents and win the games. The jury is still out on Southgate after his disasterclass against Croatia in the World Cup.
Last edited by IanDangerously; 1 month ago
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NJA
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The usual reason / excuse is that our home fixture list is busier than other nations so our players are half knackered before they start.
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IanDangerously
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(Original post by NJA)
The usual reason / excuse is that our home fixture list is busier than other nations so our players are half knackered before they start.

I’ve never heard that before ... how is it busier? The regular season in the majority of the top football countries has roughly the same number of games?
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NJA
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(Original post by IanDangerously)
I’ve never heard that before ... how is it busier? The regular season in the majority of the top football countries has roughly the same number of games?
As well as a very competitive Premiership where every team (nearly) is a threat we have the FA Cup and EFL trophy.
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IanDangerously
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(Original post by NJA)
As well as a very competitive Premiership where every team (nearly) is a threat we have the FA Cup and EFL trophy.
Yeah but how many of the major players actually appear in the EFL Cup before the semi-finals or the FA Cup before the last 8? It’s a lazy excuse, all of the top teams in Europe and South America have a full league season, a domestic cup and a continental cup with a group stage.

I reckon for the 2022 World Cup because of when it’s being played, the PL teams won’t enter the league cup anyway because they’ll have to use midweek slots in September/October as a PL fixture round.
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Drewski
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(Original post by IanDangerously)
Yeah but how many of the major players actually appear in the EFL Cup before the semi-finals or the FA Cup before the last 8? It’s a lazy excuse, all of the top teams in Europe and South America have a full league season, a domestic cup and a continental cup with a group stage.

I reckon for the 2022 World Cup because of when it’s being played, the PL teams won’t enter the league cup anyway because they’ll have to use midweek slots in September/October as a PL fixture round.
The English league is the only one (well, only major one) not to get a winter break, that's been regularly cited as a reason for fatigue later in the year.
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NJA
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(Original post by IanDangerously)
Yeah but how many of the major players actually appear in the EFL Cup before the semi-finals or the FA Cup before the last 8? It’s a lazy excuse, all of the top teams in Europe and South America have a full league season, a domestic cup and a continental cup with a group stage.

I reckon for the 2022 World Cup because of when it’s being played, the PL teams won’t enter the league cup anyway because they’ll have to use midweek slots in September/October as a PL fixture round.
I reckon a major Factor is that the euros and the World Cup is always played in the summer where teams from hotter climates do better because their bodies are used to it if it was held in the English winter we would win no problem!
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RaA64
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I expect us to win the Euros. Semi-Finals and Finals at Wembley mean only one thing..

I'd say by 2021, our best starting 11 for the big games will be:

Pickford
TAA Gomez Maguire Keane Chilwell


Winks Henderson (C)
Sancho Kane Sterling
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NJA
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(Original post by RaA64)
I'd say by 2021, our best starting 11 for the big games will be:

Pickford
TAA Gomez Maguire Keane Chilwell


Winks Henderson (C)
Sancho Kane Sterling
ok, and who on the bench?
In a sense the bench is huge, we are only as good as it because of likely injury, tactics, like a chain, we are only as strong as our weakest link, good teams & their managers will know how to exploit this.

France look a bit tasty, can we beat them?
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RaA64
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(Original post by NJA)
ok, and who on the bench?
In a sense the bench is huge, we are only as good as it because of likely injury, tactics, like a chain, we are only as strong as our weakest link, good teams & their managers will know how to exploit this.

France look a bit tasty, can we beat them?
As long as we only get France in the Semis / Finals, with the backing of a Wembley crowd, I believe we can beat them.


Since you asked for a bench, I might as well name a potential 23 man squad, but obviously we have so many options people will miss out and I don't know about injuries and form, but I'd say:

Goalkeepers - Jordan Pickford, Nick Pope, Dean Henderson

Defenders - Trent Alexander-Arnold, Kieran Trippier, Joe Gomez, Harry Maguire, Michael Keane, John Stones, Ben Chilwell, Luke Shaw

Midfielders - Jordon Henderson, Declan Rice, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Dele Alli, Mason Mount, James Madisson, Harry Winks

Forwards - Harry Kane, Marcus Rashford, Raheem Sterling, Jadon Sancho, Danny Ings
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Zerforax
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There could be a strong side in there but Southgate (or another manager) will pick Harry Kane and undermine what could be a good side.

Imagine a front 3 of Sterling, Rashford and Sancho.
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RaA64
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(Original post by Zerforax)
There could be a strong side in there but Southgate (or another manager) will pick Harry Kane and undermine what could be a good side.

Imagine a front 3 of Sterling, Rashford and Sancho.
No, no, no. Rashford isn't a striker.

Secondly, Kane isn't fully fit, but for like the previous 5 seasons he's scored like 20 goals each season and in the World Cup the guy won the golden boot. He's the second best striker in the world after Lewandowski. Against the big teams, Kane is the guy who will provide the difference between winning and losing - he always turns up in the big games.
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Zerforax
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(Original post by RaA64)
No, no, no. Rashford isn't a striker.

Secondly, Kane isn't fully fit, but for like the previous 5 seasons he's scored like 20 goals each season and in the World Cup the guy won the golden boot. He's the second best striker in the world after Lewandowski. Against the big teams, Kane is the guy who will provide the difference between winning and losing - he always turns up in the big games.
All of those front 3 can, and have, play centrally.

Kane's metrics and stats have all declined over the last couple of years. He's taking fewer touches in the opposition boxes, taking less shots and scoring less. He doesn't have the pace or mobility so you have to adapt your entire team around him to try and get the best out of him.

The England squad isnt blessed like in the past so they need to make the most of out the entire squad they have, not just focus on one player.
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RaA64
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(Original post by Zerforax)
All of those front 3 can, and have, play centrally.

Kane's metrics and stats have all declined over the last couple of years. He's taking fewer touches in the opposition boxes, taking less shots and scoring less. He doesn't have the pace or mobility so you have to adapt your entire team around him to try and get the best out of him.

The England squad isnt blessed like in the past so they need to make the most of out the entire squad they have, not just focus on one player.
You say they can play up front - but they don't play as a 9 for their respective clubs. Kane is still banging goals - next season, fully fit, he'll score 20 goals. Most of Rashford's goals are penalties or when there is space - Kane can score with once chance - he is clinical. Fed up of people like you underappreciating him - he is our best player
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NJA
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(Original post by Zerforax)
All of those front 3 can, and have, play centrally.

Kane's metrics and stats have all declined over the last couple of years. He's taking fewer touches in the opposition boxes, taking less shots and scoring less. He doesn't have the pace or mobility so you have to adapt your entire team around him to try and get the best out of him.

The England squad isnt blessed like in the past so they need to make the most of out the entire squad they have, not just focus on one player.
Yeah it seemed to me that ManU built around Rooney for too long, and he failed to deliver.
If Kane isn't our best we should make use of the fact that we can now make 5 substitutions
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RaA64
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(Original post by NJA)
Yeah it seemed to me that ManU built around Rooney for too long, and he failed to deliver.
If Kane isn't our best we should make use of the fact that we can now make 5 substitutions
he is our best though
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Zerforax
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(Original post by RaA64)
You say they can play up front - but they don't play as a 9 for their respective clubs. Kane is still banging goals - next season, fully fit, he'll score 20 goals. Most of Rashford's goals are penalties or when there is space - Kane can score with once chance - he is clinical. Fed up of people like you underappreciating him - he is our best player
Tactics can evolve over time. The current premier league champions don't play with a number 9. If you look at the heat maps and touches, Firmino plays deeper than a traditional number 9 and Salah/Mane come into a narrower position between fullbacks/CBs and both have numbers up there in terms of goals.

All this isn't to say Kane is a bad player, I just think when you have Rashford, Sterling, Sancho all doing well at big clubs (Man Utd, Man City and Dortmund) who all play in more mobile front 3 attacks, then you might as well try and utilise them the same.
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difeo
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Kane is the joint 7th top English scorer this season

Sterling and Sancho are our best players. By next summer Sterling Greenwood Sancho will be the way to go
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