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300 IRA members to fight convictions and seek compensation watch

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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...orthernireland

    Up to 300 IRA members are to attempt to have their convictions overturned and sue the British government for compensation for wrongful imprisonment, the Guardian has learned.

    Some former inmates of the Maze and other prisons during the Troubles have consulted lawyers and prisoners' groups on how to quash convictions, many of which they allege were secured through tampered evidence and confessions extracted under torture and duress.

    The move follows the success of Danny Morrison, Sinn Féin's former publicity director, in overturning his 1991 conviction for the false imprisonment of IRA informer Sandy Lynch a year earlier.

    The Criminal Cases Review Commission recommended that his case go back to the court of appeal, which this summer cleared him. Morrison, who coined the phrase "ballot box and Armalite strategy" in the 1980s, is in line for substantial compensation.

    The Guardian has been told that at least 300 former prisoners, the overwhelming majority of them held on IRA wings of the H-blocks in the Maze, are planning to use Morrison's case as a precedent to have their own convictions overturned.

    According to sources connected to the truth and reconciliation process in Northern Ireland, the prisoners include a number who signed statements admitting to crimes while allegedly being tortured or threatened in custody, as well as a number convicted on "technicalities".

    An organisation that looks after the rights of about 17,000 republicans who went to jail during the Northern Ireland conflict confirmed that a number were preparing cases to clear their names and claim compensation. Coiste na n-Iarchimi, a republican prisoners' lobby group, said it was aware that many former inmates wanted to have their records wiped.

    Michael Culbert, Coiste's director, said: "After all, so many of them were in jail for things they actually had nothing to do with. Many were convicted by signing false statements under torture or under the flimsiest of evidence and were locked away for years."

    Culbert said one of the prime motivations was employment.

    "Prisoners can't get jobs because of their convictions, or even insurance or loans. In some cases they can't get into countries like the US, Canada or Australia. So if they can wipe their record clean by proving that the convictions against them were unjust and flawed, why not?"

    He said another reason why republicans were only now trying to challenge their convictions was what they saw as a one-sided approach to exploring the violent past. The state had set up the Historical Enquiries Team within the police service to look at unsolved killings "but no similar mechanism to explore all the wrong-doings that went on in the barracks and police stations".

    Epic, an organisation representing former loyalist prisoners, said it was aware that hundreds of former paramilitary inmates, mostly republican, were seeking to follow Morrison's example.

    Asked why few if any former loyalist prisoners would pursue this course, Tom Roberts of Epic, said: "Most of the loyalist prisoners just think it's time to get on with their lives now that the conflict is over. Unlike republicans who want to prove a point about the state and its role in the Troubles, the loyalists are just happy to be free and living their lives again."


    Opinions?

    Personally I think they are all guilty as sin, and the very fact they are trying to cash in on the peace deal should sent them all right back to jail.
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    Another wonderful chapter in Northern Ireland's revolving door justice system.

    Charge them with treason, see how they like that.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Another wonderful chapter in Northern Ireland's revolving door justice system.

    Charge them with treason, see how they like that.
    Yeah, good idea. Start mistreating radical people who don't have a future. That'll really keep the peace.

    "Revolving door" justice system? It wasn't a ****ing revolving door when 16 year olds were getting thrown in jail indefinately because their da had a gun in his attic, or when young girls were getting their skulls bashed in by the security forces whilst trying and save their brothers from internment.

    I don't believe in payback, but it's not surprising that after 30 years of abuse and several of imprisonment without trial the 'RA are finally trying to get some kind of compensation.
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    If these people get legal aid to make this case I am going to spin in my grave!
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    (Original post by shamrock92)
    Yeah, good idea. Start mistreating radical people who don't have a future. That'll really keep the peace.
    The demands of justice should be kept very much separate from the peace process. If you commit a crime, you deserve punished for it.

    I hardly see how putting people in jail for crimes they have committed is 'mistreating' them. I'm not suggesting hanging them outside Belfast City Hall or anything.

    "Revolving door" justice system? It wasn't a ****ing revolving door when 16 year olds were getting thrown in jail indefinately because their da had a gun in his attic, or when young girls were getting their skulls bashed in by the security forces whilst trying and save their brothers from internment.
    'Were' indeed; Now they simply let all the lunatics, quite rightly convicted of heinous crimes, out.

    But that's not to say I completely disagreed with internment. I think certain degrees of it are necessary at times.

    I don't believe in payback, but it's not surprising that after 30 years of abuse and several of imprisonment without trial the 'RA are finally trying to get some kind of compensation.
    Nobody's getting compensated for internment, there was nothing procedurally wrong with that.
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    "After all, so many of them were in jail for things they actually had nothing to do with.
    Anybody who is wrongfully convicted and imprisoned is entitled to claim compensation: Birmingham Six, Michael Stagg, Sion Jenkins...to name just three cases.

    Why should people who subsequently are found to be innocent of the crimes they are convicted of be any different, regardless of the political situation at the time?

    Knee-jerk, unthinking reactions again. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The demands of justice should be kept very much separate from the peace process. If you commit a crime, you deserve punished for it.
    No. There's no such thing as "deserve". A serial rapist's happiness or liberty is no less valuable than mine. The purpose of punishment is a deterrent or to prevent further harm from being inflicted. If you love the principle of punishment so much, would you punish a since-converted Christian who truly regrets committing a crime?

    (Original post by L i b)
    I hardly see how putting people in jail for crimes they have committed is 'mistreating' them. I'm not suggesting hanging them outside Belfast City Hall or anything.
    They were mistreated in that they weren't given political status.

    (Original post by L i b)
    'Were' indeed; Now they simply let all the lunatics, quite rightly convicted of heinous crimes, out.
    Vraiment? I think the real criminals are the ones who starved and plundered a nation for near 700 years and kept its people as slaves, not those who resisted it for the greater good.

    (Original post by L i b)
    But that's not to say I completely disagreed with internment. I think certain degrees of it are necessary at times. Nobody's getting compensated for internment, there was nothing procedurally wrong with that.
    So you think that people who were arbitrarily thrown in jail for years on end without a valid reason have no right to seek compensation to try and rebuild their lives?
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    (Original post by shamrock92)
    No. There's no such thing as "deserve". A serial rapist's happiness or liberty is no less valuable than mine. The purpose of punishment is a deterrent or to prevent further harm from being inflicted.
    I disagree, and the law disagrees.

    If you love the principle of punishment so much, would you punish a since-converted Christian who truly regrets committing a crime?
    Perhaps not, but I'm not sure I would believe such a person. Either way, IRA members are not generally in this position.

    They were mistreated in that they weren't given political status.
    Quite bloody right too. They're lucky they didn't get the rather more exceptional political status of traitors and hung.

    I think the real criminals are the ones who starved and plundered a nation for near 700 years and kept its people as slaves, not those who resisted it for the greater good.
    Rubbish.

    So you think that people who were arbitrarily thrown in jail for years on end without a valid reason have no right to seek compensation to try and rebuild their lives?
    Nope, I do not think that, but this is not a matter of internment as I have said quite a few times now.
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    (Original post by Varsity)
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...orthernireland





    Opinions?

    Personally I think they are all guilty as sin, and the very fact they are trying to cash in on the peace deal should sent them all right back to jail.
    Personally you think they are all as guilty as sin based on what exactly? Based on conveniently ignoring the fact that 1000's of Irish men and women were interned during the troubles without any evidence against them whatsoever?
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    Who is talking out of their behind here, most of your are probably not irish and only see the terroist side of the arguement. The IRA was almost a freedom fighting movement. If the British are too blind to see this was only a act to gain indepence and freedom to be their own country from their blantent attempt to control something that wasn't rightfully theres. Then everything the IRA did was great.

    Michael Collins R.I.P
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    (Original post by gozatron)
    Who is talking out of their behind here, most of your are probably not irish and only see the terroist side of the arguement. The IRA was almost a freedom fighting movement. If the British are too blind to see this was only a act to gain indepence and freedom to be their own country from their blantent attempt to control something that wasn't rightfully theres. Then everything the IRA did was great.

    Michael Collins R.I.P
    A tiny minority using fear and crime to fund a terror campaign often targeted at their own people and civilians are nothing more than cowards.
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    (Original post by Varsity)
    A tiny minority using fear and crime to fund a terror campaign often targeted at their own people and civilians are nothing more than cowards.
    I think it takes guts to risk being imprisoned for many years without being charged with anything. That's a risk that only those who feel passionate about their situation would take.


    Personally you think they are all as guilty as sin based on what exactly? Based on conveniently ignoring the fact that 1000's of Irish men and women were interned during the troubles without any evidence against them whatsoever?
    So where's your evidence Varsity, for believing they are all as 'guilty as sin'?

    Or don't you have any, other than blind prejudice?
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    (Original post by shamrock92)
    Yeah, good idea. Start mistreating radical people who don't have a future. That'll really keep the peace.

    "Revolving door" justice system? It wasn't a ****ing revolving door when 16 year olds were getting thrown in jail indefinately because their da had a gun in his attic, or when young girls were getting their skulls bashed in by the security forces whilst trying and save their brothers from internment.

    I don't believe in payback, but it's not surprising that after 30 years of abuse and several of imprisonment without trial the 'RA are finally trying to get some kind of compensation.
    The IRA were abused?

    They indescriminatly killed hundreds of civilians. They killed a group of young soldiers who had been on a charity fun run, they blew up people at a rememberance service, they kneecapped old men and beat up anyone in the way.

    The IRA are scum and they, along with their supporters, should be shot.
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    (Original post by Varsity)
    A tiny minority using fear and crime to fund a terror campaign often targeted at their own people and civilians are nothing more than cowards.
    Again a non irish perspective, do you know how this group benefitted the people in my village by protecting us from the cowardly brits. And never did they target the irish, don't comment false accusations.
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    (Original post by flugelr)
    The IRA were abused?

    They indescriminatly killed hundreds of civilians. They killed a group of young soldiers who had been on a charity fun run, they blew up people at a rememberance service, they kneecapped old men and beat up anyone in the way.

    The IRA are scum and they, along with their supporters, should be shot.
    Maybe i should be shot then. But how about what the british did? The oppression they showed was this just?
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    (Original post by gozatron)
    Again a non irish perspective, do you know how this group benefitted the people in my village by protecting us from the cowardly brits. And never did they target the irish, don't comment false accusations.
    Stop accusing everybody else of having a pro-Brit anti-Irish bias when you clearly have exactly the opposite point of view. If you can't debate this objectively yourself then don't expect it of others.
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    (Original post by gozatron)
    Maybe i should be shot then.
    No. You've already been punished enough by having to live in Luton.

    Let me guess. You're Irish and you live in Luton. Leagrave? The Ring?
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    (Original post by gozatron)
    Again a non irish perspective, do you know how this group benefitted the people in my village by protecting us from the cowardly brits. And never did they target the irish, don't comment false accusations.
    Cowardly?

    Who was it that didn't wear a uniform?

    Who was it that nail bombed innocent people?

    Who was it that hid behind innocent people when it was payback time?

    Cowardly, LOL. The IRA are the ones who would never dare challenge the British Army or the Territorials on open ground. They never dared open combat with the British Army. Why? Because they were cowards, and they were willing to kill for their beliefs but not die for them. At least the Taliban engage us on open ground!

    If you think Britain 'oppressed' Ireland then you have no idea what oppression is. Now please, piss off.
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    (Original post by Bagration)
    Cowardly?

    Who was it that didn't wear a uniform?

    Who was it that nail bombed innocent people?

    Who was it that hid behind innocent people when it was payback time?

    Cowardly, LOL. The IRA are the ones who would never dare challenge the British Army or the Territorials on open ground. They never dared open combat with the British Army. Why? Because they were cowards, and they were willing to kill for their beliefs but not die for them. At least the Taliban engage us on open ground!

    If you think Britain 'oppressed' Ireland then you have no idea what oppression is. Now please, piss off.
    Who was it that shot 14 civilians on Bloody Sunday?

    Not dying for their beliefs? Just tell that to the families of the ten hunger strikers.
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    (Original post by AndyK67)
    Who was it that shot 14 civilians on Bloody Sunday?

    Not dying for their beliefs? Just tell that to the families of the ten hunger strikers.
    There is a difference between a military accident and a prolonged campaign of violence against civilian targets.

    Wow, ok, so because people hunger striked that clearly means that the IRA were not cowards. Whatever.
 
 
 
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