Beastybeast
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yes or no
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Reality Check
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Obviously no. How can you attract the best graduates into teaching when you still pay them crap and give them an impossible workload?
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Beastybeast
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Obviously no. How can you attract the best graduates into teaching when you still pay them crap and give them an impossible workload?
Exactly. Teachers have one of the most important jobs in society, teaching the next generation of people, bu they still get paid next to nothing
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Reality Check
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Plus, how two NQTs or even second/third year classroom teachers are supposed to be able to buy someone in London or the SE on their paltry salaries is beyond me.

EDIT: as Rorty beautifully pointed out, that should be *somewhere, not someone :laugh:
Last edited by Reality Check; 4 weeks ago
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chloenix
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No. People think being a teacher is easy and that they go to work from 8-3 and have their holidays off and it's an easy sailing job.
But as someone with two teacher parents they often work until midnight, work through the summer holidays and are constantly stressed. The money they get for it is no where near proportionate to the job.
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Rorty
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No. The starting salary is due to increase to £30,000 by 2022 which will help, and is definitely a better idea with regards to retention than the bursaries are. Whether the rest of pay scale is increased commensurately remains to be seen, but if not then this will make it harder for NQTs to gain positions as they will no longer be so much cheaper than experienced teachers. That being said, I am sure the experienced teachers will enjoy not being managed out of positions when the school can no longer afford them. Perhaps more important than a pay increase is a change to the working environment, but teachers can achieve both if they teach abroad so there is an additional brain drain to consider if things don't change.

(Original post by Reality Check)
Plus, how two NQTs or even second/third year classroom teachers are supposed to be able to buy someone in London or the SE on their paltry salaries is beyond me.
I don't think I would want to work with teachers who engage in the purchase of human chattel. I don't begrudge any upwardly mobile NQTs engaging in the middle class dream of hiring a cleaner once a fortnight, but I think this is a step too far....
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Reality Check
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(Original post by Rorty)
No. The starting salary is due to increase to £30,000 by 2022 which will help, and is definitely a better idea with regards to retention than the bursaries are. Whether the rest of pay scale is increased commensurately remains to be seen, but if not then this will make it harder for NQTs to gain positions as they will no longer be so much cheaper than experienced teachers. That being said, I am sure the experienced teachers will enjoy not being managed out of positions when the school can no longer afford them. Perhaps more important than a pay increase is a change to the working environment, but teachers can achieve both if they teach abroad so there is an additional brain drain to consider if things don't change.



I don't think I would want to work with teachers who engage in the purchase of human chattel. I don't begrudge any upwardly mobile NQTs engaging in the middle class dream of hiring a cleaner once a fortnight, but I think this is a step too far....
:laugh: that's my best one yet.

Was it Freudian, though...eek!
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Obviously no. How can you attract the best graduates into teaching when you still pay them crap and give them an impossible workload?
I think they pay is pretty good, especially when you add in 13 weeks holiday and a 23% years-in-service style pension.

You are also guarenteed pay progression for the first 6 years of teaching.

Add to that a well defined career structure and a profession that enables teachers to work anywhere in the country or even the world then teaching is quite a good opportunity.

As for workload - well, there are lots of horror stories but because we all went to school once that entitles us to all be experts. We forget that the majority of the 120,000 teachers enjoy teaching and rightly so. I can come home each night and sincerely say that I've made the world a bit better by imparting knowledge.

But for every teaching horror story, there are millions of untold stories of people who commute for three hours a day to a grey office where they do a pointless job with no prospect of progression. Sure, they might get paid well but is that the only marker of a "good" job?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Beastybeast)
Exactly. Teachers have one of the most important jobs in society, teaching the next generation of people, bu they still get paid next to nothing
Average pay in schools outside London is generally around £38k. Not bad set against national average of 26-28k.

And don't forget, we only work 3/4 of the year.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ByEeek)
You are also guarenteed pay progression for the first 6 years of teaching.
Automatic pay progression disappeared a few years ago. It's now progress-based, and this is usually on Progress 8 or the like. And it's not difficult to see what happens when you tie the pay of an already demoralised staff to the whims of SLT.
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linedpaper
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(Original post by Beastybeast)
yes or no
No, teachers are paid at what first glance could be a higher than average salary (in secondary at least)- more if they have other school roles, and they get various breaks as the school term dictates, some benefits, but when you think about the time they have to put into their job- marking, dealing with students, lesson plans etc it builds up, sometimes at a cost of mental health. Their pay isn't proportionate to the time they spend doing their job.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ByEeek)
And don't forget, we only work 3/4 of the year.
This is just not true though. Teachers don't 'just work 3/4 of the year' and spend the other quarter kicking their heels up in the Algarve, or sunning themselves on Mustique. Most of that 1/4 'holiday' is spent planning, developing and creating resources, putting sticking plasters over what could barely be contained during the term...

As if an everyday classroom teacher gets a quarter of a year off on 'holiday'...!
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artful_lounger
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Are teachers paid enough?

Can pigs fly?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Automatic pay progression disappeared a few years ago. It's now progress-based, and this is usually on Progress 8 or the like. And it's not difficult to see what happens when you tie the pay of an already demoralised staff to the whims of SLT.
No. Main Teachers Payscale M1 to M6 is guarenteed. Upper payscale is digressionary and unions are adamant that pay progression shpuld not be linked to outcomes that are outside of teachers control.

But can you think of any other profession where staff automatically go up the pay grades for simply turning up each day? I think it entirely fair that teachers are held to high standards by the tax payer.

The difference between now and 5-10 years ago is that all the sh1t teachers who used to turn up and coast have now left or have being forced out and rightly so.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ByEeek)
No. Main Teachers Payscale M1 to M6 is guarenteed. Upper payscale is digressionary and unions are adamant that pay progression shpuld not be linked to outcomes that are outside of teachers control.

But can you think of any other profession where staff automatically go up the pay grades for simply turning up each day? I think it entirely fair that teachers are held to high standards by the tax payer.

The difference between now and 5-10 years ago is that all the sh1t teachers who used to turn up and coast have now left or have being forced out and rightly so.
No. You're wrong about this in fact.

Teachers pay at all levels has been linked to performance for about 8 years now. All pay progression is now based on performance and the outcomes of appraisal.

See here
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Reality Check)
This is just not true though. Teachers don't 'just work 3/4 of the year' and spend the other quarter kicking their heels up in the Algarve, or sunning themselves on Mustique. Most of that 1/4 'holiday' is spent planning, developing and creating resources, putting sticking plasters over what could barely be contained during the term...

As if an everyday classroom teacher gets a quarter of a year off on 'holiday'...!
B0llocks to that! You can plan if you like. I spend that time recovering / looking afyer my kids. My none kid colleagues spend most of their time abroad, especially the MFL lot!

All my planning has been done now. It is marking that's the kilker and there is no way I'm doing that in the holidays.
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natha94
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
are teachers paid enough?

Can pigs fly?
lol hahhaha
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ByEeek)
The difference between now and 5-10 years ago is that all the sh1t teachers who used to turn up and coast have now left or have being forced out and rightly so.
(Original post by ByEeek)
B0llocks to that! You can plan if you like. I spend that time recovering / looking afyer my kids.

All my planning has been done now. It is marking that's the kilker and there is no way I'm doing that in the holidays.
Can you see the irony of those two posts?

And you're really a teacher? Like, a teacher of children in a school setting in the UK...?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Can you see the irony of those two posts?

And you're really a teacher? Like, a teacher of children in a school setting in the UK...?
Yep. I teach secondary in the UK. You seem surprised that there is an outstanding teacher (I have evidence to support this) who enjoys their job and isn't worked to the bone?

Maybe the reality of teaching in some schools is different to that painted by the tabloid press.

I'm not saying there aren't horror stories or schools and even our SLT have tgeir moments but we forget that every year half a million teachers don't resign on mass because of terrible working conditions.

Teaching isn't for everyone but it does suit a great many, me included.
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Reality Check
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Yep. I teach secondary in the UK. You seem surprised that there is an outstanding teacher (I have evidence to support this) who enjoys their job and isn't worked to the bone?
No, but I am surprised that an 'outstanding teacher' was adamant about the continued existence of automatic pay progression, when in fact it stopped in 2013. 'Outstanding teachers' don't often have the approach of, 'bóllocks to any planning or marking' during the holidays, either. Nor do they suggest their colleagues in MFLs are kicking their heels up abroad, when in fact what they're probably doing is visiting family they haven't been able to see during term-time, and also doing work at the same time.

Maybe we know different groups of outstanding teachers.
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