This government has failed the elderly!!!

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Anonymous #1
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Hi, as you can see by the title. I feel very strongly about this. The whole situation with Dominic Cummings being able to happily travel in the lockdown. But places like care homes have not been properly supplied with PPE and COVID-19 tests and all the supplies they have needed.

The vulnerable and the elderly who live alone have been completely forgotten about. Families aren’t able to go and see them!

Do you think this is wrong?

Where are the adverts for Age UK and Alzheimer’s society and many more?? Why aren’t they being shown?

What are your thoughts on this? I’m intrigued to know what people think about it..

Thanks
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Surnia
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A lot of care homes are privately run and are responsible for providing their own PPE and tests.

Providing care for the vulnerable was classed as essential travel, so there was nothing stopping family going to visit relatives.
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OptiWeight
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(Original post by Surnia)
A lot of care homes are privately run and are responsible for providing their own PPE and tests.

Providing care for the vulnerable was classed as essential travel, so there was nothing stopping family going to visit relatives.
A lot of private care homes did try to provide PPE but at the time there was shortage and a outcry from the NHS for more PPE. Tests were limited at the beginning and are still limited today so care homes cannot just give tests. Actually, families had to be careful and try to prevent spreading covid-19 while visiting there loves one.
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DiddyDec
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They were forgotten about long before COVID, we have been waiting for Hancock to release the social care green paper to reform social care since March 2017.

(Original post by Surnia)
A lot of care homes are privately run and are responsible for providing their own PPE and tests.

Providing care for the vulnerable was classed as essential travel, so there was nothing stopping family going to visit relatives.
The PPE stocks were drained by the NHS leaving little left for social care, all testing was done through the Government. Nobody was offering private COVID testing when it was needed.

My father who is a trustee for a learning difficulty care home charity had to get PPE supplies through the local corner shop because their usual suppliers had directed all of their stock to the NHS and even then it wasn't enough to operate within the safe operating guidance.
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Surnia
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(Original post by OptiWeight)
A lot of private care homes did try to provide PPE but at the time there was shortage and a outcry from the NHS for more PPE. Tests were limited at the beginning and are still limited today so care homes cannot just give tests. Actually, families had to be careful and try to prevent spreading covid-19 while visiting there loves one.
There was nothing stopping private care homes from buying PPE; it isn't their responsibility to make up for a shortage in the NHS.

There was controversy over tests being administered before transfer of patients from hospitals to care homes, and the latter should have ensured it was safe to accept new admissions.

Yes, people had to be careful, but there was nothing stopping them visiting a relative and observing precautions. In some households a relative moved in to care for a lone family member, even if that meant social distancing for a period.
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OptiWeight
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(Original post by Surnia)
There was nothing stopping private care homes from buying PPE; it isn't their responsibility to make up for a shortage in the NHS.

There was controversy over tests being administered before transfer of patients from hospitals to care homes, and the latter should have ensured it was safe to accept new admissions.

Yes, people had to be careful, but there was nothing stopping them visiting a relative and observing precautions. In some households a relative moved in to care for a lone family member, even if that meant social distancing for a period.
Sweetheart there was everything stopping care homes from buying PPE, a shortage and those in production/ready were prioritised for the NHS. I agree there was nothing stopping them visiting but the problem was a bad immune system and a mortality rate which we found was higher in care homes.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Surnia)
There was nothing stopping private care homes from buying PPE; it isn't their responsibility to make up for a shortage in the NHS.
Do you understand what a shortage means?

You couldn't buy it because there simply wasn't enough in stock to buy. Care homes were literally begging people on social media to get any PPE.

“Once you run out, it is a question of being down to Marigolds and bin liners”
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Surnia
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(Original post by OptiWeight)
Sweetheart there was everything stopping care homes from buying PPE, a shortage and those in production/ready were prioritised for the NHS. I agree there was nothing stopping them visiting but the problem was a bad immune system and a mortality rate which we found was higher in care homes.
Dont patronize me with 'sweetheart' when there was PPE being bought in from other countries. When you're a private firm you can set up your own contracts, same as any other industry.

You have then gone on to confuse people living in care homes with what you first described as vulnerable and elderly living alone. It wasn't a bad immune system or a high mortality rate stopping visitors to those living alone.
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Surnia
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Do you understand what a shortage means?

You couldn't buy it because there simply wasn't enough in stock to buy. Care homes were literally begging people on social media to get any PPE.

“Once you run out, it is a question of being down to Marigolds and bin liners”
So why couldn't a private company have its own contracts?
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nexttime
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Hi, as you can see by the title. I feel very strongly about this. The whole situation with Dominic Cummings being able to happily travel in the lockdown. But places like care homes have not been properly supplied with PPE and COVID-19 tests and all the supplies they have needed.

The vulnerable and the elderly who live alone have been completely forgotten about. Families aren’t able to go and see them!

Do you think this is wrong?

Where are the adverts for Age UK and Alzheimer’s society and many more?? Why aren’t they being shown?

What are your thoughts on this? I’m intrigued to know what people think about it..

Thanks
Yeah this is a tough issue, that kind of comes down to your views on basic philosophy and meaning of life!

If you go from a pure utilitarian point of view, care homes shouldn't exist at all. The NHS has a budget of approximately £20,000 (its complicated) for each perfect quality year of life a treatment can provide (so 50% quality of life = 50% funding etc). Nursing homes are vastly over that, meaning we given the elderly care homes vastly more generously than we give to everyone else in the form of the NHS (care home funding is also very complicated but I think that's fair in terms of its effects). Obviously no one is suggesting cutting all care homes and shooting all residents - its your classic example of why pure utilitarianism (just prioritising the maximum happiness for everyone) isn't a viable ethical view.

With that background, when you have limited tests and PPE, who do you give it to? Hospitals which predominantly look after the better quality of life elderly, some young people plus said care home residents, and generally have high thoroughfare with utterly zero social distancing so high risk of spreading it. Or do you prioritise just the care homes? And no i don't think you can do both - not in the early phases when no one really knew what was happening, let alone what was about to happen!

Then there's the meaning of life aspect. The average survival of a nursing home resident is 2.2 years, with about a third dying each year. Shielding and social distancing requirements due to covid are likely to last a long, long time. Its been almost 4 months so far with next to no/no visitors, so we're talking a good 20% maybe? having died since lockdown with no one visiting them (maybe a lot higher given there were loads of covid deaths). What would you rather - a higher chance of death, or being able to see your family? You seem to be on the latter end, against being alone at the expense of more likely to catch covid and die, is that right? Because I'd probably be with you on that, tbh, but I think its very individual. Anyone advised to shield is able to just ignore it if they want to, of course, as long as they follow the laws everyone else has to follow. Unless they're in a care home.

So what would you have done differently? And I'd suggest 'more PPE' is not a great answer - how would you have got more PPE?
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YaliaV
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They are pretty invisible at the best of times in this country and we need a cultural shift.
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Pathway
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They've forgotten about the elderly, vulnerable and disabled for years. This isn't really anything new.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Surnia)
So why couldn't a private company have its own contracts?
Because they don't have the buying power of the NHS.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Surnia)
Dont patronize me with 'sweetheart' when there was PPE being bought in from other countries. When you're a private firm you can set up your own contracts, same as any other industry.
You are still not understanding the meaning of shortage.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail...kers-worldwide

https://theferret.scot/care-provider...price-gouging/

All this combined is the fact that social care is severely underfunded means many couldn't actually afford what little PPE was left.
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Muttley79
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(Original post by Surnia)
A lot of care homes are privately run and are responsible for providing their own PPE and tests.

Providing care for the vulnerable was classed as essential travel, so there was nothing stopping family going to visit relatives.
Sorry you are wrong - Care Homes are allowing NO visitors so you cannot go and see relatives. Most have been closed since before lockdown ..

It isn't regarded as 'essential travel' either.
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StriderHort
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Surina My mum's care home was hit v bad with all this (nat news) and I got near daily updates from them about PPE, any orders they tried to make with normal suppliers were refused or kicked down the line in favour of NHS, either that or they'd get a call a few days later cancelling their order 'due to demand', they can buy private but they can't just buy any old sht.

As the UK Gov themselves found, it's a very different matter 'placing an order' and actually GETTING it. so given the UK govs international orders were messed with (looking at you Turkey), what hope does a care home without government support have?

Likewise they also got Sweet FA testing ability till it was way too late and deaths hit double figures (in all they have lost maybe 1/3 of residents)
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barnetlad
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(Original post by Pathway)
They've forgotten about the elderly, vulnerable and disabled for years. This isn't really anything new.
The government failed to act in early March over Covid 19. They failed to act over asymptomatic transmission known about in late February. They failed to engage every lab possible to provide tests from the beginning and even by their own dubious figures did not have a reasonable level of tests available until late April.

The consequences of these failures affected older and vulnerable people more because of the nature of the virus and who it affects the most. I view Mr Johnson's dereliction of duty as criminal.
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StriderHort
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(Original post by Muttley79)
Sorry you are wrong - Care Homes are allowing NO visitors so you cannot go and see relatives. Most have been closed since before lockdown ..

It isn't regarded as 'essential travel' either.
I think that was down to the OP veering from care homes to actual home situations.
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barnetlad
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(Original post by YaliaV)
They are pretty invisible at the best of times in this country and we need a cultural shift.
I agree. It has always been something desired but never acted upon. Probably not helped by some people being OK with their older relatives being in a home and then ignoring them. My grandmother was in a home for the last two years of her life, and one of the family would visit most days, even just to bring her a book to read or a newspaper and stay for 10-15 minutes. It was noticeable when you signed the visitors book how only two or three people out of the c30 in the home had visitors regularly.
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Pathway
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(Original post by barnetlad)
The government failed to act in early March over Covid 19. They failed to act over asymptomatic transmission known about in late February. They failed to engage every lab possible to provide tests from the beginning and even by their own dubious figures did not have a reasonable level of tests available until late April.

The consequences of these failures affected older and vulnerable people more because of the nature of the virus and who it affects the most. I view Mr Johnson's dereliction of duty as criminal.
Me too tbh. You're preaching to the choir in that respect. But this is a systemic issue that has plagued the sick, disabled and elderly for decades now. My GP cautioned me about going out before the "lockdown" even occurred because he was of the opinion the government were dragging their heels, and taking far too long in enacting anything. It sucks because people in this situation, like myself, are always forgotten, and often times we are the least able to speak out about it and have our voices heard.
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