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Who is good at mathematics between Engineering & mathematics students

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#2

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Who is good at mathematics between Engineering & mathematics students

**Horlskew**)Who is good at mathematics between Engineering & mathematics students

The mathematician will be better at mathematics and utilising a wide array of mathematical tools.

The engineer probably very strong in a more refined set of mathematical tools, but a better problem solver and more used to solving a diverse array of problems.

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#3

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The engineer probably very strong in a more refined set of mathematical tools, but a better problem solver and more used to solving a diverse array of problems.

**mnot**)The engineer probably very strong in a more refined set of mathematical tools, but a better problem solver and more used to solving a diverse array of problems.

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#4

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I dispute that an engineer is a better problem solver! Mathematics IS problem solving - more diverse is unlikely too. In the old modular A level I taught all the modules at some point - pure, decision, mechanics and stats. My Mathematics degree included fluid dynamics, OR, quantum mechanics, relativity as well as loads of stats and 'pure'.

**Muttley79**)I dispute that an engineer is a better problem solver! Mathematics IS problem solving - more diverse is unlikely too. In the old modular A level I taught all the modules at some point - pure, decision, mechanics and stats. My Mathematics degree included fluid dynamics, OR, quantum mechanics, relativity as well as loads of stats and 'pure'.

Im sure a mathematician can eloquently describe the turbulence models in fluid dynamics but the engineer can do the CFD and the technical implementation beyond the mathematics.

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#5

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I think the mathematician is probably better at addressing analytical elements of problem solving. But on addressing a technical issue from identifying the problem to delivering a solution id take the engineer.

Im sure a mathematician can eloquently describe the turbulence models in fluid dynamics but the engineer can do the CFD and the technical implementation beyond the mathematics.

**mnot**)I think the mathematician is probably better at addressing analytical elements of problem solving. But on addressing a technical issue from identifying the problem to delivering a solution id take the engineer.

Im sure a mathematician can eloquently describe the turbulence models in fluid dynamics but the engineer can do the CFD and the technical implementation beyond the mathematics.

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#6

**Muttley79**)

I dispute that an engineer is a better problem solver! Mathematics IS problem solving - more diverse is unlikely too. In the old modular A level I taught all the modules at some point - pure, decision, mechanics and stats. My Mathematics degree included fluid dynamics, OR, quantum mechanics, relativity as well as loads of stats and 'pure'.

It is obvious that the mathematician will have better analytic skills and hence a better problem solver in general. However this is not always the case.

Speaking of mathematics, the level, here in our Universities is far lower than let's say the level in most European or Japanese & Chinese Universities.

Last edited by Lucifer323; 4 weeks ago

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#7

**Muttley79**)

I dispute that an engineer is a better problem solver! Mathematics IS problem solving - more diverse is unlikely too. In the old modular A level I taught all the modules at some point - pure, decision, mechanics and stats. My Mathematics degree included fluid dynamics, OR, quantum mechanics, relativity as well as loads of stats and 'pure'.

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#8

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Speaking of mathematics, the level of here in our Universities is far lower than let's say the level in most European or Japanese & Chinese Universities.

**Lucifer323**)Speaking of mathematics, the level of here in our Universities is far lower than let's say the level in most European or Japanese & Chinese Universities.

The Chinese education system does not focus on problem solving and innovative research.

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#9

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Evidence? Why do so many want to come to this country to study?

The Chinese education system does not focus on problem solving and innovative research.

**Muttley79**)Evidence? Why do so many want to come to this country to study?

The Chinese education system does not focus on problem solving and innovative research.

But I have been abroad and can see the differences. When I say abroad I mean Europe.

Have a look for example at the level of Mathematics the students are taught in Schools in France, Germany, Italy, Spain. You need to have a good look around.

Whatever we do here in our first or second year in a maths undergraduate course (not everything but a lot of material) is taught in their A-levels there.

Examples of A level courses in Europe:

Analysis

Geometry

Linear Algebra

Discrete Maths

Group Theory Logic

None of the above are taught here at A-Level. Some elements perhaps of algebra & geometry but not to the standards that we see in Europe .

Most UK Maths Undergraduate students would find it very difficult to survive in European Universities, simply because the A-Level system here is not preparing them the say way.

The knowledge someone can get in Oxford or Cambridge here, someone else can get for free or for very little cost at most European Universities.

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#10

**Muttley79**)

Evidence? Why do so many want to come to this country to study?

The Chinese education system does not focus on problem solving and innovative research.

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#11

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You do understand our A-Level exams are by far easier in comparison with all other European Nations. That's not only in Maths but in every subject.

**Lucifer323**)You do understand our A-Level exams are by far easier in comparison with all other European Nations. That's not only in Maths but in every subject.

Yes, A level content was far greater in the 1970s and 1980s - the past papers are on the Emporium so it's well known. However the marks needed to get a top grade were very different. No-one I've ever taught has looked to do a degree in Europe Students from those countries have struggled at A level here ...

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#12

(Original post by

Who is good at mathematics between Engineering & mathematics students

**Horlskew**)Who is good at mathematics between Engineering & mathematics students

Engineering is mostly the application of Mathematics, it is the concrete application of abstract concepts

For application you often don't require deep knowledge of the abstract concepts other than similarity relationships

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#13

**Muttley79**)

Evidence? Why do so many want to come to this country to study?

The Chinese education system does not focus on problem solving and innovative research.

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#14

(Original post by

Don't lecture me thank you - you cannot compare standards without looking at the level needed to get top marks.

Yes, A level content was far greater in the 1970s and 1980s - the past papers are on the Emporium so it's well known. However the marks needed to get a top grade were very different. No-one I've ever taught has looked to do a degree in Europe Students from those countries have struggled at A level here ...

**Muttley79**)Don't lecture me thank you - you cannot compare standards without looking at the level needed to get top marks.

Yes, A level content was far greater in the 1970s and 1980s - the past papers are on the Emporium so it's well known. However the marks needed to get a top grade were very different. No-one I've ever taught has looked to do a degree in Europe Students from those countries have struggled at A level here ...

The level of education in the UK is by far lower so to attract many others from all over the world and keep the business going in Universities.

There is a huge difference between European Students who were taught abroad and the ones here. However I don't see what evidence do you use to day that European students here in the UK system are struggling. They are usually the top students in both schools and universities. Likewise for Chinese students. Language maybe a barrier sometimes.

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#15

(Original post by

Thats wrong lol, look at all the international mathematics Olympiad team winner, they're all from China

**JokesOnYoo**)Thats wrong lol, look at all the international mathematics Olympiad team winner, they're all from China

From my experience, Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, and others are the top students in both Schools and Universities.

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#16

I'm not sure I understand the question.

The maths that maths students and engineering students are doing will be different. (in research it'd depend on their specialism)

(Original post by

You do understand our A-Level exams are by far easier in comparison with all other European Nations. That's not only in Maths but in every subject.
Really? I remember looking at some French papers and it's not that much more advanced. In fact, I looked at an Irish scholarship exam taken by second year undergrads and it looked like something an able A-level student who had done some further reading could do.

Though I agree the A-level isn't a perfect preparation for a top maths degree (why STEP exists and why A-level maths/further maths is basically ignored over it at say Cambridge) but I think it fares relatively well compared to other countries.

The maths that maths students and engineering students are doing will be different. (in research it'd depend on their specialism)

**Lucifer323**)

You do understand our A-Level exams are by far easier in comparison with all other European Nations. That's not only in Maths but in every subject.

Though I agree the A-level isn't a perfect preparation for a top maths degree (why STEP exists and why A-level maths/further maths is basically ignored over it at say Cambridge) but I think it fares relatively well compared to other countries.

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#17

(Original post by

Muttley doesn't understand at all that the level of Mathematics taught abroad is mucb higher than the level here. Europe, China, Japan, etc.

From my experience, Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, and others are the top students in both Schools and Universities.

**Lucifer323**)Muttley doesn't understand at all that the level of Mathematics taught abroad is mucb higher than the level here. Europe, China, Japan, etc.

From my experience, Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Indian, and others are the top students in both Schools and Universities.

I remember someone mentioning that calculus is a university level course (as it is in the US) in China too with an inordinate amount of time being spent on difficult geometry and algebra.

Last edited by _gcx; 4 weeks ago

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#19

But its also important to note, ideas of Mathematics is usually derived from reasoning applied to observation of physical phenomena. Understanding Mathematics is a step lower than creating Mathematics, being good at the former does not mutually include the latter because more qualitative skills are required for latter

Last edited by JokesOnYoo; 4 weeks ago

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#20

(Original post by

I can use and apply CFD .. there's no a standard mathematician just as all Engineers aren't the same

**Muttley79**)I can use and apply CFD .. there's no a standard mathematician just as all Engineers aren't the same

Perhaps problem solving was the wrong way to describe it as it shorts mathematicians on analytical problem solving, but I think engineers are better at taking a problem in the world from diagnosis to delivered solution.

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