Sunak is trying to bankrupt an already bankrupt country!

No. Because we have a well funded wealfare state and health system. Are you really telling me that if we reduced benefits to zero over night we would get by just fine?

Of course not overnight, it would cause serious economic distrubance, but if you give people money only because they're not doing well, you're going to have more people who choose not to do well, and take public money for free instead.

People should get state pensions only if they have done a fair share of work in their life already and they're going to retirement, they're temporarily or permanently unable to work, or they've lost job, and are looking for another, which might take a couple months, so given they worked before, they should should receive some help, but not longer than for couple of months, and no longer than the time they spent in their last job.

Otherwise they're going to be demoralised by social handouts. The only 'help' the state should provide them, is to maintain taxes reasonably low, so even unskilled people could get a job, get some skills, and earn good living through their own work.

Of course not overnight, it would cause serious economic distrubance, but if you give people money only because they're not doing well, you're going to have more people who choose not to do well, and take public money for free instead.

People should get state pensions only if they have done a fair share of work in their life already and they're going to retirement, they're temporarily or permanently unable to work, or they've lost job, and are looking for another, which might take a couple months, so given they worked before, they should should receive some help, but not longer than for couple of months, and no longer than the time they spent in their last job.

Otherwise they're going to be demoralised by social handouts. The only 'help' the state should provide them, is to maintain taxes reasonably low, so even unskilled people could get a job, get some skills, and earn good living through their own work.

Folk made redundant last month would be able to get a new job in the next month?

Surely the UK will be shedding jobs from now until at least November? No?

. You're talking about tearing down a system that helps millions of hard working people get by in life because a tiny handful of people are out there gaming the system. It's completely ridiculous to be talking about this.

Or in six months, or maybe in eight?


Now there is a specific situation. Different situation needs different measures.


You should be carefull about those millions, because you have only 66,6 in total.

Healthy, young and willing to work people don't need any help from the state, just as long as the state doesn't take too much of their money away.
If the need help, it's because the state takes away so much money from them, they effectively work 162 days a year, without getting money for it. That's your tax freedom day, you work about 162 days (2017 measure), only to have your money taken away.
And don't come up with 'we need taxes to fund hospitals and schools' argument.

In Switzerland, Australia, Estonia or New Zealand, people don't have so much of their income taken away in taxes, and there isn't any problem with beggars and orphants at streets.

What a load of nonsense. There are roughly 260 working days a year - are you trying to tell me the average person is taxed at 62% of their income? Pull the other one. Plus you're ignoring those on low incomes, who are in most in need of assistance and are taxed very little.

Why don't you want me mentioning those things? No answer?

Have you even been to these places you mention? Australia has similar tax rates to us, Auckland has an absolutely horrendous homelessness problem, and funnily enough my only experience with Switzerland is being approached by beggars outside Basel train station.

1. Sorry, I trust Adam Smith institute more than a randome someone on the internet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedom_Day

2.If people are not willing to learn and work, it is entirely their fault if they're not doing well. Most of people work hard to avoid hardship, and they're succesful, and you're telling me, that money they earned should be taken away from them, and given to those who didn't bother to learn and work?

Or in six months, or maybe in eight?


Now there is a specific situation. Different situation needs different measures.

What a load of nonsense. There are roughly 260 working days a year - are you trying to tell me the average person is taxed at 62% of their income?

Healthy, young and willing to work people don't need any help from the state, just as long as the state doesn't take too much of their money away.
If the need help, it's because the state takes away so much money from them, they effectively work 162 days a year, without getting money for it. That's your tax freedom day, you work about 162 days (2017 measure), only to have your money taken away.
And don't come up with 'we need taxes to fund hospitals and schools' argument.

In Switzerland, Australia, Estonia or New Zealand, people don't have so much of their income taken away in taxes, and there isn't any problem with beggars and orphants at streets.

I didn't realise one is only taxed on working days. At the weekends I don't need to pay VAT? I think the Adam Smith Institute missed that memo too - best let them know its not as early as May afterall.

Roughly speaking, yes. Based on a mean average rather than the median.

Median would be a more representative average though....

Exactly why is everyone ignoring that fact. Why do we have 3 million Eastern Europeans working here doing unskilled jobs that lazy idle British scallywags could easily do but welfare pays them more to do f all instead? In fact the welfare gang boast on social media, tiktok etc how they are better off not working. When they pitch up to a foodbank texting their mates with a new iPhone 11 in one hand and cigarette or vape in the other you wonder what their priorities?
Scrap welfare give these toerags a choice of heres a job either do it or your lookout, no freebies and no running to get a sicknote saying too depressed to work either thats been a tired excuse for too long also.

Why have Iceland and Tesco Express had to put notices near the till saying School meal vouchers are not for alcohol? Clearly a sign that welfare is far too generous and the gravy train needs to end now.

We were actually talking about people who are already in work, but still need assistance

Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan, India etc, which is no doubt draining those countries of their labour force too. It's a never ending viscious cycle and it's bourne not out of laziness but out of the general greed of big capital that wants to exploit as much as they can out of people whilst giving them as little as possible.

Fair enough, although the idea still has some serious disadvantages, like damaging people's motivation to learn and work harder, or in case of progressive income taxes, it makes people hide their incomes or deliberately taking lower salaries not to fall into the higher tax rates.



These countries have excessive reproduction rates, and huge unemployment as a result. Taking workforce from there isn't draining anything, as the amount is impossible to drain. The bigger problem is that workers from these countries don't adapt to the local conditions as easily as Ukrainians and Russians or as Vietnamese.

You will never make less money by moving into a higher tax bracket. That's not how progressive taxes work.

You would be surprised how they work in some countries.

Folk made redundant last month would be able to get a new job in the next month?

Surely the UK will be shedding jobs from now until at least November? No?

When Brexit gets done you can expect plenty more as well! Rishi won't be able to keep the coffers afloat with all of the benefits being given out to Brexit voters who've lost their jobs!

Surely not that much more given worst case remoaner projections of a no deal were a mere 3% drop of gdp from peak?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/19/no-deal-brexit-3-percent-off-uk-economic-growth-says-oecd-recession&ved=2ahUKEwis0f-itNzqAhUoUhUIHbWoChoQjjgwAXoECAYQAg&usg=AOvVaw1NSz8H53yv5NHeJAom0EvY&cshid=1595268013286

You would be surprised how they work in some countries.