Very rich people call for higher taxes - on themselves

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Burton Bridge
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#41
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#41
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
It is though.
No it isnt, is it? Currently we have poverty rising, people dying on the street from a lack of accommodation and opportunities disproportionately benefiting those from wealthier backgrounds.

This is all immoral
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Fullofsurprises
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Depends how the taxes are implemented. The general answer is, yes I do, because I realise the current tax system isnt pulling enough money in to protect the most vulnerable from extreme poverty and death. I believe the right to life and opportunity should be a available to all, not just some.
There are some areas of taxation that have been thoroughly downgraded for the well off. One of the biggest is Council Tax - because the taxable bands have not been recalculated for decades, people in great big houses are paying a much lower proportion of overall local taxes than they did when the system was first established, they are paying less per property £ value than people in smaller houses and less compared to average incomes. Nowadays Council Tax is effectively a state subsidy given to people with grand houses, or to look at it another way, it is a punishment on average and poor people.

Another big area of tax subsidy to the rich is the way in which they are allowed to use trusts to get around inheritance taxes and to go offshore. Trust law is something that is hidden to the general public but represents a huge "you don't have to pay like poor people" giveaway to the wealthy.
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DSilva
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#43
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#43
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
How would you deal with companies basing themselves in Luxembourg or Andorra in order to avoid tax?

It is though.
In the short term, I would follow the examples of other countries by not offering any state support (such as grants, reductions on VAT etc) to businesses who set up in tax havens.

I would also like there to be a high transactional tax, so profits are taxed where they are made, and not where the company is based.
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Burton Bridge
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
There are some areas of taxation that have been thoroughly downgraded for the well off. One of the biggest is Council Tax - because the taxable bands have not been recalculated for decades, people in great big houses are paying a much lower proportion of overall local taxes than they did when the system was first established, they are paying less per property £ value than people in smaller houses and less compared to average incomes. Nowadays Council Tax is effectively a state subsidy given to people with grand houses, or to look at it another way, it is a punishment on average and poor people.

Another big area of tax subsidy to the rich is the way in which they are allowed to use trusts to get around inheritance taxes and to go offshore. Trust law is something that is hidden to the general public but represents a huge "you don't have to pay like poor people" giveaway to the wealthy.
Oh absolutely, there are others as well almost too many to list. The work place pension scheme is another example where the poorest get hit the hardest for tax, the ISA allowance increases have gifted the wealthy tax breaks.

The wealthy are doing very well at present on the suffering of those beneath them in social class.
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imlikeahermit
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
No it isnt, is it? Currently we have poverty rising, people dying on the street from a lack of accommodation and opportunities disproportionately benefiting those from wealthier backgrounds.

This is all immoral
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DSilva
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#46
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#46
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
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So being born into a very wealthy family that can afford to send you to Eton gives you no more opportunities than being born to a family living on an inner city Council estate?
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Burton Bridge
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#47
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#47
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
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Brilliant name posting, you found your level

Not concerned about fairness now? Is it fair wealthy children live longer?
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 3 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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#48
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#48
(Original post by DSilva)
So being born into a very wealthy family that can afford to send you to Eton gives you no more opportunities than being born to a family living on an inner city Council estate?
Of course it gives you more of a chance of those opportunties, however, there is absolutely nothing to stop somebody born on a council estate from having the same opportunities. Those who come from the poorest families already have money absolutely thrown at them when they are in school through pupil premium. Every single person in this country gets the chance of a free education up until and past University level. There is absolutely no excuse for not taking the chances if they're there, which they are. You are also assuming that those who have those opportunities at Eton take them.

The real issue here is that the richest 1% in society already pay 28% of income tax for this country and you and your left wing pal there want to tax them more? Got a nerve you two like.
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imlikeahermit
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Brilliant name posting, you found your level
Well it's just the same old rhetoric isn't it really? Tax everyone to the hilt, give the poor all the money, so that nobody has any opportunities whatsoever. You sure you're not a fan of communism? Either that or you've idolised Robin Hood for years.
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Burton Bridge
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#50
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#50
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Well it's just the same old rhetoric isn't it really? Tax everyone to the hilt, give the poor all the money, so that nobody has any opportunities whatsoever. You sure you're not a fan of communism? Either that or you've idolised Robin Hood for years.
No it isnt, and yes I'm sure I'm not in favour of communism. I'm also sure you dont hold the cognitive abilities to understand what it is I'm saying, either that or your bigotry prevents you from seeing what I'm saying.
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imlikeahermit
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
No it isnt, and yes I'm sure I'm not in favour of communism. I'm also sure you dont hold the cognitive abilities to understand what it is I'm saying, either that or your bigotry prevents you from seeing what I'm saying.
The thing I find most ironic about all of your arguments for higher taxes is that quite rightly, you believe the gap between the rich and poor should be narrowed, and that no, we should not have people on the streets, nor should we have food banks needing to be used; however, what strikes me as tremendously ironic is that your Brexit position is to leave. A decision that no matter which way you look at it will simply make the poor poorer. Brexit will illuminate and broaden the divide between the rich and the poor. Surely you see the irony...
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#52
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#52
Labour out here getting outflanked to the left by the ultra-rich :sigh:

It's a PR strategy and nothing more - much like the "philanthropists" who donate money to charity in order to save money compared to actually paying their tax, they want people to be praising them and not asking the difficult questions about who they exploited (be it workers, indigenous people or poor nations) to get that money in the first place.
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DSilva
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#53
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#53
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Of course it gives you more of a chance of those opportunties, however, there is absolutely nothing to stop somebody born on a council estate from having the same opportunities. Those who come from the poorest families already have money absolutely thrown at them when they are in school through pupil premium. Every single person in this country gets the chance of a free education up until and past University level. There is absolutely no excuse for not taking the chances if they're there, which they are. You are also assuming that those who have those opportunities at Eton take them.

The real issue here is that the richest 1% in society already pay 28% of income tax for this country and you and your left wing pal there want to tax them more? Got a nerve you two like.
You seem to have very little clue what actually goes on in the country.
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DSilva
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#54
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#54
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
The thing I find most ironic about all of your arguments for higher taxes is that quite rightly, you believe the gap between the rich and poor should be narrowed, and that no, we should not have people on the streets, nor should we have food banks needing to be used; however, what strikes me as tremendously ironic is that your Brexit position is to leave. A decision that no matter which way you look at it will simply make the poor poorer. Brexit will illuminate and broaden the divide between the rich and the poor. Surely you see the irony...
A remainer looking down their noses at people who voted to leave...
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imlikeahermit
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#55
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#55
(Original post by DSilva)
You seem to have very little clue what actually goes on in the country.
That would be you. Left wing delusion. Wanna try opening your eyes.
(Original post by DSilva)
A remainer looking down their noses at people who voted to leave...
Hardly looking down my nose. I'm simply pointing out that due to Brexit and the economic suffering that will follow will make the poor poorer. Are you saying this isn't true?
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Burton Bridge
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#56
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#56
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
The thing I find most ironic about all of your arguments for higher taxes is that quite rightly, you believe the gap between the rich and poor should be narrowed, and that no, we should not have people on the streets, nor should we have food banks needing to be used; however, what strikes me as tremendously ironic is that your Brexit position is to leave. A decision that no matter which way you look at it will simply make the poor poorer. Brexit will illuminate and broaden the divide between the rich and the poor. Surely you see the irony...
No that's not true at all, socialists have traditionally been against the right wing ideals of the European union. Its harlious to me watching pseudo socialists basically arguing for trickle down economics. The EU is as neoliberal as anything you could imagine.

Also it's not true I wish to narrow the gap between the richest and poorest, what I wish to do has to eliminate the extreme poverty and inequality. Im happy with the successful fortunate being super rich, what I'm not happy with is the fact this is achieved as the suffering and expense of the poorest.

The BS that membership if the EU is left wing is laughable, I get totally why right wing people wish to join the EU, I get it. I get why centrist wish to join the EU however I stuggle to understand why any genuine traditional socialist wishes to sign up to a right leaning political union which prevents many of our core beliefs. BTW the EU membership is vast if you cannot grasp simple differences in opinion, you are dont have a chance with complex issues like EU membership.
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Burton Bridge
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#57
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#57
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
That would be you. Left wing delusion. Wanna try opening your eyes.

Hardly looking down my nose. I'm simply pointing out that due to Brexit and the economic suffering that will follow will make the poor poorer. Are you saying this isn't true?
Brilliance, lose the debate and throw insults.

Anything on what I actually said above in the on topic discussion, you know the one which made you use all your debating skills and post a neme?
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Burton Bridge
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#58
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#58
(Original post by DSilva)
A remainer looking down their noses at people who voted to leave...
And prodvideing no evidence to back up their bigotry, #shocker
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DSilva
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#59
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#59
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
That would be you. Left wing delusion. Wanna try opening your eyes.

Hardly looking down my nose. I'm simply pointing out that due to Brexit and the economic suffering that will follow will make the poor poorer. Are you saying this isn't true?
If we want to increase opportunities for those at the bottom then of course we need to be investing substantially more on schools and other public services than we currently do.

Have you ever seen an inner city shool? When they have classes of 30+ that can't afford to stay open 5 days a week then it's no surprise that opportunities are limited.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...r-some-schools
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Stiff Little Fingers
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I stuggle to understand why any genuine traditional socialist wishes to sign up to a right leaning political union which prevents many of our core beliefs.
Eh, that was pretty simple at the time of the referendum - Brexit with a tory government would mean a far right sell out compromising on everything from food standards (got to get that hormone laced beef from the US) to civil rights (talk of replacing the ECHR with our own "British bill of rights"). Given the EUs lack of any response to Hungary attacking womens rights and LGBT rights, and people like Ursula Von Der Leyen congratulating Duda on his reelection despite the whole LGBT-Free zones he and his supporters have been promoting, that latter argument has been somewhat blown out of the water since then.
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