China's economic reforms Watch

Karvel
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Do you think the economic reforms that have taken place, both in the urban and rural sectors, have actually benefited China? Do you think some have caused unanticipated political problems for the CCP?
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Howard
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(Original post by Karvel)
Do you think the economic reforms that have taken place, both in the urban and rural sectors, have actually benefited China? Do you think some have caused unanticipated political problems for the CCP?
Of course they've benefited China. It wasn't long ago that half the country was living on a bowl of rice a day and dodging famines every 5 years.
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naivesincerity
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(Original post by Howard)
Of course they've benefited China. It wasn't long ago that half the country was living on a bowl of rice a day and dodging famines every 5 years.
But was it a big bowl of rice, and was it special fried?

Half the whole country living on one bowl of rice, that's pretty harsh. They would have to have a fraction of a grain each.
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hanns.g
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Just because the political views of China clash with the ideologies of the West, it does not make them 'problematic'. Just let them get on with it.
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Howard
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(Original post by naivesincerity)
But was it a big bowl of rice, and was it special fried?

Half the whole country living on one bowl of rice, that's pretty harsh. They would have to have a fraction of a grain each.
Yes it was "special flied lice" Arrrso!
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Vincente
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Of course, the economic reforms (known as 'socialism with chinese characterisitcs'???) has already lifted over 400 million people out of absolute poverty and at the same time benefiting consumers in the west. There are even forecasts that by 2050 absolute poverty will be eliminated.

Do you think some have caused unanticipated political problems for the CCP?
I believe that there is. Although the newly emerging middle class (due to the reforms)within China are leaning towards the CCP to maintain economic stability at present, I feel that despite the wave of nationalism which swept across this section of chinese society (due to the whole olympics saga) it will also be the main force which will be pushing for political reform within China itself.
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Zophixan
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The reforms are extremely beneficial, I believe the ccp will go the way of the south korean and taiwanese regimes in that once financial growth stabalises, democracy will follow. Slowly of course. Interestingly, the gini coefficient is quite similiar to the USA.
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neo232
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It did go wrong in 1989, anyone here knows about the Tiananmen Square massacre? Part of it was caused by high inflation from Deng Xiao Ping's reform policies. And yes, Deng used troops and tanks to clear these protesters.

Economic reform takes time and blood. They got so many problems :lol:
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Lilflipsy
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(Original post by neo232)
It did go wrong in 1989, anyone here knows about the Tiananmen Square massacre? Part of it was caused by high inflation from Deng Xiao Ping's reform policies. And yes, Deng used troops and tanks to clear these protesters.

Economic reform takes time and blood. They got so many problems :lol:
So they asked for abandoning the free market reforms and go back to strict maoism.......nice:rolleyes:

Just to answer your question, yes. My question is what is the predominant reason behind the protest that sparked and the brutel suppression which followed? It cannot be clearer that the students are calling for a 5th reform......democracy. The fact that pro-democratic Genera Secretary Zhao Ziyang being removed showed clearly that Deng feared the power of democracy spreading and the fact that the CCP has lost grip of its ideological control over its people.
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Agent Smith
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I think the Chinese are doing things the sensible way round - economic reform first, then political. They saw what happened when Gorbachev tried to do it the other way, and they don't want the same thing to happen to them, no sir. The same could be said of Vietnam, incidentally.

Personally I think the political side of things could nevertheless be speeded up somewhat, but even so it can't be denied that China is heading in the right direction. My main worry is that the economic (and telecommunications) developments will move too fast - or rather, get too far ahead of the political and social reforms - and lead to the "losing of grip" that other posters have alluded to. If that happens, there is a real risk that decades of progress will be lost in a massive crackdown by Party conservatives. The old saying about learning to walk before you try to run is hugely relevant to China's development.
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Lilflipsy
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(Original post by Agent Smith)
I think the Chinese are doing things the sensible way round - economic reform first, then political. They saw what happened when Gorbachev tried to do it the other way, and they don't want the same thing to happen to them, no sir. The same could be said of Vietnam, incidentally.

Personally I think the political side of things could nevertheless be speeded up somewhat, but even so it can't be denied that China is heading in the right direction. My main worry is that the economic (and telecommunications) developments will move too fast - or rather, get too far ahead of the political and social reforms - and lead to the "losing of grip" that other posters have alluded to. If that happens, there is a real risk that decades of progress will be lost in a massive crackdown by Party conservatives. The old saying about learning to walk before you try to run is hugely relevant to China's development.
IMHO, the political reforms actually slowed down after the 1989 incident. Before 1980, there has been quite a number of political reformist, notably Zhao Ziyang, the General Secretary. Deng himself made a huge leap which stats that the head of the CCP must not stay in power for longer than 10 years (two five-year plans), yet after that, although personal freedom improved abeit, the talks of political reforms in China remain largely a taboo.
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Agent Smith
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(Original post by Lilflipsy)
IMHO, the political reforms actually slowed down after the 1989 incident. Before 1980, there has been quite a number of political reformist, notably Zhao Ziyang, the General Secretary. Deng himself made a huge leap which stats that the head of the CCP must not stay in power for longer than 10 years (two five-year plans), yet after that, although personal freedom improved abeit, the talks of political reforms in China remain largely a taboo.
Well, in a sense that proves my point then - crackdowns do get in the way of political reform. The last thing we need is another, bigger one.

Nevertheless, I fear China may be heading for just that - if its leaders are not very, very careful. The economic, demographic and social situation is heading for the point where "something's gotta give"; and when that point comes, if the political scene has not moved on to the point where that "something" can be one-party rule, then we'll have another, bigger Tiananmen Square and freedom and prosperity will take a hit instead.

I worry for China.
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~|Shock|~
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The progress in terms of political reform is certainly quite disappointing. It still frustrates me when the ccp continues to provide the "old excuses" that "liberty is limited for political stability", it just seemed a more and more feeble excuse to me.

I remember Collinwood compare the CCP to Nazi Germany a couple of months ago. What I can say is that, if the CCP continues to bury their heads to criticisms and only accept "good news", it will unfortunately have the same fate as the Nazi Party of Germany in WW2. That, would almost certainly seen the "Middle Kingdom" divides into the "Nine States", and would be extremely disastrous for the Chinese in general.
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Vincente
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I think the Chinese are doing things the sensible way round - economic reform first, then political.
To be honest I am rather suspicous of the CCP's (or the party on the whole) wish to hand over their political power which does contradicts my views in the past. The decision to threaten Taiwan in the 1996 democractic elections and the more recent decision to delay HK's legislative and C.E election which is against Deng's 'Basic Law' constitution for HK clearly demonstrates this. The party (excluding obviously the more reformist faction) know very well what is at stake if they lost their political power: their privileges (socio and economic) will be lost, many will be accountable for past repressions, greater autonomy to minority regions which may in the future break further away, they may end their claim for Taiwan (they see this as so called 'western influence in their sphere') and the end of the one-child policy due to the peasantry's and m/c's opposition.
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Agent Smith
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(Original post by ~|Shock|~)
That, would almost certainly seen the "Middle Kingdom" divides into the "Nine States", and would be extremely disastrous for the Chinese in general.
You foresee a breakup of the country itself?
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~|Shock|~
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(Original post by Agent Smith)
You foresee a breakup of the country itself?
China has been ruled by 17 different government in its 5000 years of History before the CCP.

Some of them certainly lasted longer than others, there are certainly some great leaders and Kings, but all of them eventually collapsed due to one reason: corrupt leader/king refused to accept citicism and is trapped in a grand delusion of "good news".

And the CCP is in danger of becoming the 18th, and it almost did become the 18th during the cultural revolution where the failure to accept criticism went to such a level that Mao sees himself as a semi-deity.
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Joric
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(Original post by Karvel)
Do you think the economic reforms that have taken place, both in the urban and rural sectors, have actually benefited China? Do you think some have caused unanticipated political problems for the CCP?

They have surely helped China. But they will have to bring in democracy one day.
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