UK Policeman Suspended After Kneeling on Kneck of Black Man

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nathan_nacu
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#61
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#61
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Love all the armchair policemen in this thread who have absolutely no clue what kind of scumbags the police deal with on a regular basis. What’s happened here is wrong, but that doesn’t mean that the police should suddenly take a hands off approach. You have absolutely no idea who they deal with.
They can obviously use hands on approaches but kneeling on a neck was not/ never should be resorted to lmao. I don’t know why y’all are working so hard to justify this when even the Met have criticised neck chokes

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I would imagine, that is you are not trained to be in such situations, you also haven’t been in those situations, therefore your airy fairy opinion of how crime actually is, is complete ********.
Well the Met chief who is very trained gave his opinion that chokes of this nature are never recommended so your appeal to authority fallacy is baseless, invalid and null
Last edited by nathan_nacu; 2 weeks ago
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
You've seen the borderline-riot "situations" in recent weeks, where attendees of unlicensed music event have violently turned on police when they tried to close them down.

Sky News reports 140 officers injured in recent weeks (https://news.sky.com/story/around-14...rties-12015186). Do you seriously think 'talking to' these crowds will immediately de-escalate them?!

People will attack police. It happens on a daily basis. You can't blame officers for using force to gain compliance when the risk of injury to them is very real. No level of social training will make 'talking' to crowds an effective solution. Sadly in all too many cases, force is the only way to stop disorder.
This one man is clearly not a crowd so what exactly is your point ?

(Original post by Roidrage69)
There is not one person in the country who could disarm a man with a knife and not be a serious risk of being stabbed himself, police should do a lot more training in restraints and martial arts but it only goes so far.

If they are suspected of having a weapon, being restrained fast should be the first thing that should happen before they get a chance to use it or run and use on the public. I've tried de-escalating situations who people very drunk and coked up, their mothers wouldn't be able to calm them down never mind a stranger.
He was restrained lmao, he was cuffed. Would he use his teeth to stab? The choke hold did nothing except showcase the police’s ineptitude

(Original post by prodigy999)
Attachment 930586Attachment 930588

Male extremely violent (as above)

Male was wanted on a recall to prison (aka being sent back to prison as he had breached his conditions of release)

Male had a knife

Male violently resisted officers
Just because someone is a criminal does not make them less human❤️ f*ck your respectability politics. Criminal or not did the police know all that at the time? Hm??? Classic Texas Sharpshooter fallacy. See this is what I’m talking about, officers committing grievous bodily harm and calling it ‘reasonable force’ then using resistance as an excuse. Nonsense.
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Napp
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Your very first post stated that I’m “conflating this with racism” but yet where was race or racism used ?
Whoops i was confusing the posts. My mistake.
In relation to that though, it was your conflating this with the Floyd death.. thus implying a racial dimension to this. Plus, plenty of others have made this a racial issue by highlighting the fact it was a white officer and a black criminal.
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Napp
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)

Just because someone is a criminal does not make them less human❤️
Shipman, Neilson, Sutcliffe etc... all of those are subhuman, i imagine most sensible people would concur with this.
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mgi
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(Original post by The RAR)
I would be more interested to know what happened BEFORE the officer used such a tactic. Otherwise I will assume the police are in the right
Why? How does that approach make sense? You do realise that the Met Police itself does not recommend the use of the neck restraint method that police officer used? So given that fact, what other information would you need?
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Roidrage69
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
He was restrained lmao, he was cuffed. Would he use his teeth to stab? The choke hold did nothing except showcase the police’s ineptitude
I wasn't referring to that specific man but armed men in general.

(Original post by mgi)
So kneeling on the neck or head after handcuffing a suspect is understandable then, right? OMG.
I didn't like watching that and was thinking it was too much at the time, but after seeing an arrest for a knife was made and given he wasn't a big officer and the other was a woman I don't care that much. He should get a telling off and more training but nothing else.

Controlling the head/neck often you get to control the whole body so I am for the use for it with some individuals. They will be uncomfortable for seconds but they would be too if they are being controlled with an arm up their back . If used by police trained in chokes then they are safer to than using batons and tasers on somebody fighting them, you can put a violent offender unconscious in seconds to get him cuffed and restrained with no damage to him.

An example of how effective they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSVHgReJnew

I am not advocating the use of this choke on people that are just resisting arrest but when confronted with real violence.
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mgi
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(Original post by Roidrage69)
I wasn't referring to that specific man but armed men in general.


I didn't like watching that and was thinking it was too much at the time, but after seeing an arrest for a knife was made and given he wasn't a big officer and the other was a woman I don't care that much. He should get a telling off and more training but nothing else.

Controlling the head/neck often you get to control the whole body so I am for the use for it with some individuals. They will be uncomfortable for seconds but they would be too if they are being controlled with an arm up their back . If used by police trained in chokes then they are safer to than using batons and tasers on somebody fighting them, you can put a violent offender unconscious in seconds to get him cuffed and restrained with no damage to him.

An example of how effective they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSVHgReJnew

I am not advocating the use of this choke on people that are just resisting arrest but when confronted with real violence.
Ok, but the Met Police do not recommend the use of such methods.
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caravaggio2
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https://youtu.be/U8bLZskwNWo
What can happen when one criminal is treated with respect and not cuffed immediately by two policemen dealing with him.

All in the blink of an eye and without being "armed"

Relevant part starts at 3:00

When they eventually subdue him it is by holding him down by the neck. If it happened today he would undoubtedly be screaming "I cant breath!"
Last edited by caravaggio2; 2 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by mgi)
You have no idea about the experiences of people who post on these threads though. Some posters may have had some very valid experiences of working with or dealing with police officers. How would you know?
And no one said that the police should take a "hands off approach"! Those are your words and don't appear anywhere else.
And law breakers are not animals; they still have some rights! I am sure you are not trying to tell us that kneeling on the head or neck of a suspect is an acceptable restraint method?-'---or are you??
I have experience of working with the police, I see these kind of people every single day. I should point out here, it's very simplistic, but if you don't break the law in anyway then this doesn't affect you anyway, does it?

I also would not compare some of these 'law breakers' to animals, however some are extremely violent with a long history of violent crime. Sometimes, the only way to deal with them is to get them handcuffed by whatever means possible. Kneeling on the neck is not an acceptable restraint method, but going back to the base point is that if this person in question didn't break the law in the first place then this wouldn't have happened, would it?
(Original post by nathan_nacu)
They can obviously use hands on approaches but kneeling on a neck was not/ never should be resorted to lmao. I don’t know why y’all are working so hard to justify this when even the Met have criticised neck chokes



Well the Met chief who is very trained gave his opinion that chokes of this nature are never recommended so your appeal to authority fallacy is baseless, invalid and null
I'm working to justify a strong police force that is not afraid to enforce the law. Police Officers now are getting absolutely pulled apart for simply doing their jobs, which is to enforce the law. The thing I find so ironic about this is you literally have no clue what it's like out there. The only time you'll realise is when you personally get bitten in the arse by it, either by being beaten up, then turning to the police who have absolutely no idea where to start, or say for example if you have your house broken into, and then you realise that the police in this regards are as much use a chocolate teapot.


I've said this in many threads lately because it is 100% correct, our police are not racist, nor are they heavy handed, nor are they brutal. They are institutionally weak, massively weak. The fact that only 9% of crime actually gets solved proves this. This one off case of a knee for a few seconds does not change the fact that our police are hopeless.
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I'm working to justify a strong police force that is not afraid to enforce the law. Police Officers now are getting absolutely pulled apart for simply doing their jobs, which is to enforce the law. The thing I find so ironic about this is you literally have no clue what it's like out there. The only time you'll realise is when you personally get bitten in the arse by it, either by being beaten up, then turning to the police who have absolutely no idea where to start, or say for example if you have your house broken into, and then you realise that the police in this regards are as much use a chocolate teapot.


I've said this in many threads lately because it is 100% correct, our police are not racist, nor are they heavy handed, nor are they brutal. They are institutionally weak, massively weak. The fact that only 9% of crime actually gets solved proves this. This one off case of a knee for a few seconds does not change the fact that our police are hopeless.
Kneeling on somebody’s neck is not ‘enforcing the law’ it’s assault. Loool you’re telling me I don’t know what it’s like ‘out there’ ? 😂😂 I grew up in Nigeria sir, you really have no idea my experiences. I have been beaten up, stolen from, had my house broken into and a litany of other things. I’ve stated this on a previous thread. Police didn’t help me very much. And you need to stop ur backwards thinking of “if u don’t break the law it won’t affect u”. A simple stop and search can escalate so far. Why are police above the law? They abuse their power and are untrustworthy.

Oh wow, so there are no racist police? Have u met every single police officer for that justification? Have you read the Macpherson Report, a government enquiry that outlines the Met’s institutional racism and canteen culture? They are institutionally racist, idk about weak. The police being hopeless has nothing to do with this thread. We’re talking about what they did being wrong and you’re coming here to discuss funding and irrelevant topics. Were you not the same one condemning the black lives matter movement because you generalised the whole movement by some negative acts or protests????? but when the police do something wrong you’re automatically defensive, “not all cops, my police aren’t racist”. You’re a hypocrite. Of course they don’t seem racist to you, you’re (probably) not a person of colour. You’re not exactly the typical racism victim 🙃
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by Napp)
Shipman, Neilson, Sutcliffe etc... all of those are subhuman, i imagine most sensible people would concur with this.
Pretty sure that they are still judged within the restrictions of their human rights so still human yes?
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Napp
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Pretty sure that they are still judged within the restrictions of their human rights so still human yes?
Well are you talking about peoples perceptions on them or the literalist interpretation of them being 'human'? The former being obviously they are subhuman and the second being patently a ridiculous argument to advance.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
They are both equally defendable because using neck chokes are *wrong* no matter what.
1. He didn’t use a ‘neck choke’
2. Two things can be wrong with one being more wrong.

But really, do I have a great deal of sympathy for someone who had a knee on their neck for 10 seconds after they’d been carrying a knife, not really.
Last edited by Underscore__; 2 weeks ago
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mgi
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I have experience of working with the police, I see these kind of people every single day. I should point out here, it's very simplistic, but if you don't break the law in anyway then this doesn't affect you anyway, does it?

I also would not compare some of these 'law breakers' to animals, however some are extremely violent with a long history of violent crime. Sometimes, the only way to deal with them is to get them handcuffed by whatever means possible. Kneeling on the neck is not an acceptable restraint method, but going back to the base point is that if this person in question didn't break the law in the first place then this wouldn't have happened, would it?

I'm working to justify a strong police force that is not afraid to enforce the law. Police Officers now are getting absolutely pulled apart for simply doing their jobs, which is to enforce the law. The thing I find so ironic about this is you literally have no clue what it's like out there. The only time you'll realise is when you personally get bitten in the arse by it, either by being beaten up, then turning to the police who have absolutely no idea where to start, or say for example if you have your house broken into, and then you realise that the police in this regards are as much use a chocolate teapot.


I've said this in many threads lately because it is 100% correct, our police are not racist, nor are they heavy handed, nor are they brutal. They are institutionally weak, massively weak. The fact that only 9% of crime actually gets solved proves this. This one off case of a knee for a few seconds does not change the fact that our police are hopeless.
You said: " The thing I find so ironic about this is you literally have no clue what it's like out there. " Now how exactly would you know any such thing without meeting me? And let me remind you of a few facts, black police officers complain of racism within the police force. Black people, criminal or not, are far more likely to stopped under suspicion that white people, criminal or not! Blacks more likely to die in police custody than whites in terms of proportion.

Yet you come to the conclusion the police force is not institutionally racist? how? why? If you are clued up like you claim, then tell us when was the last time you put these views of yours to a selection of black people or black police officers then?
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JOSH4598
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
This one man is clearly not a crowd so what exactly is your point ?
My point was that assaults on police are almost an everyday occurrence - only a few weeks ago a Met PC was stabbed while trying to detain another male with a knife (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53365622). Police officers should not avoid using force, and risk being stabbed, just to appease keyboard warriors who think they are experts on policing.

(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Just because someone is a criminal does not make them less human❤️ f*ck your respectability politics. Criminal or not did the police know all that at the time?
Yes - somebody who is a criminal, who is in possession of a knife, who has a violent criminal record, has been convicted of breaking a woman's eye socket, who has also broken a man's jaw and who is on recall to prison IS less human. They have no place in society and deserve to be thrown in a cell and left. Marcus Coutain is far from a saviour as you seem to paint him to be. I think it's fair to say the police knew many of these details - they didn't randomly restrain him on the floor and then, by any stroke of luck, discover he was a violent criminal in possession of a knife.

Nathan - you're like a Jack-In-The-Box. You jump up and appear, just to throw your anti-police agenda around and defend violent criminals. The fact you have so much sympathy with violent, knife-wielding criminals says a lot more about you than anything else.
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mgi
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
My point was that assaults on police are almost an everyday occurrence - only a few weeks ago a Met PC was stabbed while trying to detain another male with a knife (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53365622). Police officers should not avoid using force, and risk being stabbed, just to appease keyboard warriors who think they are experts on policing.


Yes - somebody who is a criminal, who is in possession of a knife, who has a violent criminal record, has been convicted of breaking a woman's eye socket, who has also broken a man's jaw and who is on recall to prison IS less human. They have no place in society and deserve to be thrown in a cell and left. Marcus Coutain is far from a saviour as you seem to paint him to be. I think it's fair to say the police knew many of these details - they didn't randomly restrain him on the floor and then, by any stroke of luck, discover he was a violent criminal in possession of a knife.

Nathan - you're like a Jack-In-The-Box. You jump up and appear, just to throw your anti-police agenda around and defend violent criminals. The fact you have so much sympathy with violent, knife-wielding criminals says a lot more about you than anything else.
but, excuse me , a knee on the neck as a restraining technique is allowed by which uk police force then? and you think that will raise a more positive profile of the public's perception of the police force? Take us , those so called "keyboard warriors"through your thoughts on this. We await with our itchy fingers at the ready on the keyboard!
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by Napp)
Well are you talking about peoples perceptions on them or the literalist interpretation of them being 'human'? The former being obviously they are subhuman and the second being patently a ridiculous argument to advance.
Not really, my point was they are still human, still eligible for basic human rights. People’s perception of that is irrelevant as it is still a fact.
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Occitanie
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Funny how those calling this ‘excessive force’ are yet to explain how a police officer should have dealt with an armed criminal.

Anyone care to explain what the officer is meant to do?
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by Underscore__)
1. He didn’t use a ‘neck choke’
2. Two things can be wrong with one being more wrong.

But really, do I have a great deal of sympathy for someone who had a knee on their neck for 10 seconds after they’d been carrying a knife, not really.
That’s your personal problem with your respectability politics.

This is the definition of a choke
Name:  2721AE6E-D98F-4A0B-8596-01C21594A2C7.jpg.jpeg
Views: 14
Size:  27.9 KB

He was very clearly choked in his neck for a short amount of time so ?
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
Yes - somebody who is a criminal, who is in possession of a knife, who has a violent criminal record, has been convicted of breaking a woman's eye socket, who has also broken a man's jaw and who is on recall to prison IS less human. They have no place in society and deserve to be thrown in a cell and left. Marcus Coutain is far from a saviour as you seem to paint him to be. I think it's fair to say the police knew many of these details - they didn't randomly restrain him on the floor and then, by any stroke of luck, discover he was a violent criminal in possession of a knife.

Nathan - you're like a Jack-In-The-Box. You jump up and appear, just to throw your anti-police agenda around and defend violent criminals. The fact you have so much sympathy with violent, knife-wielding criminals says a lot more about you than anything else.
but sir, how would you be stabbed when his hands are already cuffed would he use his teeth?

I don’t think I’m an expert of policing but the Met Chief, who is an expert even condemned this method of restraint so what is your point ?

Is this the same man as the one being knelt on in the video? Again, you are using Strawman fallacies to paint your narrative. I never painted him as a hero, nor said he was innocent. My only point in this thread is simple, restraint method was wrong, nothing else.

Oh wow your Strawman skills are wonderful. George Floyd was a pornstar so am I silly for sympathising with an illegal sex worker hm? I simply sympathise with someone who was mistreated by the police, even the police admitted that this treatment was wrong (therefore agreeing with me) but hey, ignore the experts.
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