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Jews in history
(I dont do much history - so please dont have a go at me)
but why have Jews been the one everybody picks on throughout history - like country clubs/universities etc - have been no jews etc - why do people pick on them?
but why have Jews been the one everybody picks on throughout history - like country clubs/universities etc - have been no jews etc - why do people pick on them?
Scroll to see replies
Cos damn can they make money - and it makes everyone jealous!
there's probably lots of reasons. one, i guess, is that they're always a minority wherever they live (well, until israel). and "the masses" always love to hate minorities.
something interesting i only found out about recently is a jewish prayer called Kol Nidre, which is said at the start of prayer services, which basically goes "if i made a promise, i didn't really mean it". and i reckon it's that which gave rise to the idea that jews cannot be trusted. what the prayer's actually about, i don't know. worth looking into, though.
something interesting i only found out about recently is a jewish prayer called Kol Nidre, which is said at the start of prayer services, which basically goes "if i made a promise, i didn't really mean it". and i reckon it's that which gave rise to the idea that jews cannot be trusted. what the prayer's actually about, i don't know. worth looking into, though.
I'm jewish and I get the whole "u luv mony lul" all the time.
I figure the reason people think Jews love money so much is because in the past, Jews weren't allowed to have jobs so they had to create businesses instead - most being banks and insurance - most being successful banks and insurance.
On the other hand, I kinda acknowledge stereotypes like - black/brown/ginger curley hair big noses. Because for the most part - they're true. It's hurtful but it's the truth.
I figure the reason people think Jews love money so much is because in the past, Jews weren't allowed to have jobs so they had to create businesses instead - most being banks and insurance - most being successful banks and insurance.
On the other hand, I kinda acknowledge stereotypes like - black/brown/ginger curley hair big noses. Because for the most part - they're true. It's hurtful but it's the truth.
You may be interested in this
UniofLife
I'm sure this will be touchy subject and let me make clear that I'm asking from a purely historical perspective and not intending to lay blame on anyone merely hoping to have an investigation of the topic. I am also posting it here because the thread relates more to the substance of the New Testament and the history of Christian theology than history or politics so is best placed here in my view.
I am reading a book at the moment which claims that all or most anti-semitic myths have their roots in the story in Christian tradition of the crucifixion of Jesus. The three main myths involved are:
1) Jewish control of governments
2) Ritual murder of Christian/Gentile children
3) Jewish greed and obsession with money
The claim is that these three myths are a direct result of the Passion story. The first stems from the claims in the NT that the Jews manipulated or forced Pilate to kill Jesus when he didn't want to. The second from the idea of Jews crucifying innocent Christians (the first ever blood libel accused the Jews of crucifying a child in Norwich, England). The third from Judas and his willingness to betray Jesus for his own greed.
I am reading a book at the moment which claims that all or most anti-semitic myths have their roots in the story in Christian tradition of the crucifixion of Jesus. The three main myths involved are:
1) Jewish control of governments
2) Ritual murder of Christian/Gentile children
3) Jewish greed and obsession with money
The claim is that these three myths are a direct result of the Passion story. The first stems from the claims in the NT that the Jews manipulated or forced Pilate to kill Jesus when he didn't want to. The second from the idea of Jews crucifying innocent Christians (the first ever blood libel accused the Jews of crucifying a child in Norwich, England). The third from Judas and his willingness to betray Jesus for his own greed.
Killing Jesus
Also, because Christians couldn't lend people money (usury or something like that), the Jews served as moneylenders, and would charge interest etc, and from that got quite rich. That annoyed people, seeing them getting so rich and powerful, and so they got angry. And rich people didn't want to pay back the loans
Also, because Christians couldn't lend people money (usury or something like that), the Jews served as moneylenders, and would charge interest etc, and from that got quite rich. That annoyed people, seeing them getting so rich and powerful, and so they got angry. And rich people didn't want to pay back the loans
Bismarck
You forgot to include "in Europe (including Anglo-Saxon colonies)" in your question. Jews were treated no worse than other minority groups in the rest of the world. As for why, it's because they were the most visible and successful minority group. It obviously didn't help that Jews weren't Christians at a time when being a non-Christian in Europe was enough to get you killed.
well it seems to be right across the world - i saw this country club in america - it used to be no blacks/no jews - it then changed to no jews in the 70s - and only changed to all in in late 80s.
Folderol
You may be interested in this
thanks a lot - i haven't seen this thread - will look at it
Because they damn near control the world. Good on 'em.
(I dont do much history - so please dont have a go at me)
but why have Jews been the one everybody picks on throughout history - like country clubs/universities etc - have been no jews etc - why do people pick on them?
Hey,
It certainly seems that the Jews have been persecuted alot throughout history. This is because the Jews are a distinctive group of people who can be traced back very far. They have been, until the (re)creation of israel, been dispersed throughout the nations, and this has made them a easy target. It is much harder to pick on a group of people who have their own country, because that country will be much more likely to start war.
It is true that they have picked on. For example, in the middle ages and the spanish inquisition the Jews suffered heavily from the Christians. And more recently we have the holocaust. The holocaust was not just aimed at the Jews. Hitler was obsessed with creating a new "super-race", and also killed disabled and mental people. However, they have not been constantly been picked on. For example, you may find it interesting to know that during the period in which Spain was ruled by Muslims, the Jews greatly prospered and achieved high positions.Today, the Jews probably don't suffer much anywhere in the world, if we exclude Palestinian/Israeli conflict (in which both sides suffer).
Peace.
its the noses
Bismarck
You forgot to include "in Europe (including Anglo-Saxon colonies)" in your question. Jews were treated no worse than other minority groups in the rest of the world. As for why, it's because they were the most visible and successful minority group. It obviously didn't help that Jews weren't Christians at a time when being a non-Christian in Europe was enough to get you killed.
Yeah, clearly the Arabs love Jews. Eh.
jews are not allowed to own land due to their religion, so they have never had their own state (until today). so they used to live all over the place around europe and asia - meaning they were always the ethnic minority group. they generally opened businesses and became very successful, so people just hated them i guess. like today, many ethnic minorities are very much hated in areas.
not forgetting the jews being blamed for the death of jesus.... although anyone who says this is just ignorant
not forgetting the jews being blamed for the death of jesus.... although anyone who says this is just ignorant
Because they have no home country, therefore migrate to others.
As said, they are small and successful.
They've always been fairly affluent and therefore heavily opposed by people who are poor and in their own country.
The Jews have always been seen as an easy scapegoat.
As said, they are small and successful.
They've always been fairly affluent and therefore heavily opposed by people who are poor and in their own country.
The Jews have always been seen as an easy scapegoat.
Pocket Calculator
something interesting i only found out about recently is a jewish prayer called Kol Nidre, which is said at the start of prayer services, which basically goes "if i made a promise, i didn't really mean it". and i reckon it's that which gave rise to the idea that jews cannot be trusted. what the prayer's actually about, i don't know. worth looking into, though.
I think this is a more modern phenomenon tbh. I really don't think that the average Christian or even the priests in the Middle Ages would have been able to translate the spoken Aramaic of this prayer. Besides, it is said only once a year on the most holy day of the year when it is somewhat unlikely that any non-Jews are present, and the prayer lasts a matter of minutes.
As I said I think this is a much more modern "source".
The source for the idea of Jews as usurers and money-grabbers is that money-lending was the only profession that Jews could do during many centuries in Europe because they were forbidden to own land or join the guilds that controlled business. And Kings and Monarchs in Europe used the Jews as cash cows which in turn forced the Jews to charge more from the non-Jews simply to survive.
Gemma_08
(They also killed Jesus)
(They also killed Jesus)
Who was a Jew.
eulerwaswrong
(I dont do much history - so please dont have a go at me)
but why have Jews been the one everybody picks on throughout history - like country clubs/universities etc - have been no jews etc - why do people pick on them?
but why have Jews been the one everybody picks on throughout history - like country clubs/universities etc - have been no jews etc - why do people pick on them?
basically, jews were forbidden to own land and shops. they became tax collectors and started loan agencies....and whoever genuinely likes the tax collector is a bit daft.
add to the list the fact that many early AND later christians considered them to be the murderers of jesus. awesome.
they also generally married within their own communities to preserve their heritage....which made them easy to identify as outsiders.
formula for hatred? solidified.
not an easy ?...books upon books have been written on the subj.
here is a simplified history
jeiwsh culture is one of the few that has remained so siminilar to its ancient roots. the reasn for that is that it maintained its jewish identity and close knit culture throughout history refusying to give into the diaspora that other cultures gave into particularily under the greeks / romans.
there were various sects within judism. they were under roman rule and looking for a messiah. some people belived jesus was that messiah, most didn't. but it didn't matter because christianity allowed gentiles. after the jews were put down by the romans after the rebellion in 72 (i think) ad, christianity became the hate dsect. the reason the jews were not as hated was because they didn't try to convert anyone. you are born jewish or not. christians did though and pockets of christanity sprung up, especially among poorer people because it is essentially an empowering a religion for the poor / meek. (see neitzche)
chritsians were persecued after nero blamed them for the descruction of rome. but emperor constantine adopted chrsitanity after winning a battle in around 350-ish ad. it became the state religion. this came in handy. it was a religion that appealed to the poor and kept them in their place.
having grown up in europe you should undestand the middle ages and the dominance of the church so i won't go into it. you also know they hated heritics. unlike islam which technically embraces jews as people of the book, christians did not. add to that...rome was the seat of power for the christian church. greco / roman culture and history was glorified by the christian church as the means to the current christan empire which was a continuation of the old roman empire. (see aquinas who christianized aristotle...or was it plato...its been about 10 years since i did a religius philophy course....but the point is that rome was glorified in present and past.
so if rome was the center of chritianity and the roman empire was the source then who was to blame for the killing of jesus. a roman pontius pilot....but a roman sways and misled by the jews...this is a major reason for the animosity which over time became ingrained in western culture.
add to that the fact tat jews remained a tight knit cuture who refused to be christianized. then why were they not entirely driven out of europe? they served a purpose...as trade developed banks developed. but christians were not allowed to loan money with interests. jews didn't have this restriction. and were necessary in the early development f business and commerce. so jews became known as money lenders (see 12th night) and a sterotype arose around them. this is where the modern stereotype came out with the jews controling the worlds money...blah blah blah but no one likes owing money, especially not people who cannot pay it back. another reason for the hatred.
lets fast forward awhile...jews, despite their adversity, have always maintained their communites and survived. they do this because they are close knit, because they care fo eachother, because they share the same values. its very different from a lot of poorly affected communities...when a member of the community raises up or does well he / she tends to integrate themselves with the dominate community rather then remain part of the minority culture. this didn't happen with the jews. this means that in times of struggle, jewish communies were able to take care of themselves.
so germany after wwwI was struggling, and because of their nature, jewish communites did well for themselves. jews became a scapegoat for a country looking for someone to blame. when a massive population is failing and af ew are thriving, the masses attack / blame the surviors and that's basicly what happened in germany.
(this is all just history with very little info on modern rascism and how that played into it)
and then the issue of palestine. it was a uk area. the un / uk gave it to the jews to give them a home or safe haven. essentially when the jews tried to escape germany or other perscecution they had no place to go. england turned them away. america turned them away. etc...it was a place to go that they could always be safe if the world turned on them again. at the time jews and palestinians were living there relatively peacefully.
in the modern era israel continues to thrive. it has turned the desert into fields and is the only western country in a 3rd world area. all of these arab countries currently existing hate each other. most of the palestinans in israel were kicked out of what was jordan into was is now israel. the irainians, egyptians, syrians, etc...they do not get along.....unless they have a common enemy. that enemy is israel.
very very very basic history...but you can hopefully get the gist and if you are actualy interested there are a million books to read that can explain it better and in depth.
here is a simplified history
jeiwsh culture is one of the few that has remained so siminilar to its ancient roots. the reasn for that is that it maintained its jewish identity and close knit culture throughout history refusying to give into the diaspora that other cultures gave into particularily under the greeks / romans.
there were various sects within judism. they were under roman rule and looking for a messiah. some people belived jesus was that messiah, most didn't. but it didn't matter because christianity allowed gentiles. after the jews were put down by the romans after the rebellion in 72 (i think) ad, christianity became the hate dsect. the reason the jews were not as hated was because they didn't try to convert anyone. you are born jewish or not. christians did though and pockets of christanity sprung up, especially among poorer people because it is essentially an empowering a religion for the poor / meek. (see neitzche)
chritsians were persecued after nero blamed them for the descruction of rome. but emperor constantine adopted chrsitanity after winning a battle in around 350-ish ad. it became the state religion. this came in handy. it was a religion that appealed to the poor and kept them in their place.
having grown up in europe you should undestand the middle ages and the dominance of the church so i won't go into it. you also know they hated heritics. unlike islam which technically embraces jews as people of the book, christians did not. add to that...rome was the seat of power for the christian church. greco / roman culture and history was glorified by the christian church as the means to the current christan empire which was a continuation of the old roman empire. (see aquinas who christianized aristotle...or was it plato...its been about 10 years since i did a religius philophy course....but the point is that rome was glorified in present and past.
so if rome was the center of chritianity and the roman empire was the source then who was to blame for the killing of jesus. a roman pontius pilot....but a roman sways and misled by the jews...this is a major reason for the animosity which over time became ingrained in western culture.
add to that the fact tat jews remained a tight knit cuture who refused to be christianized. then why were they not entirely driven out of europe? they served a purpose...as trade developed banks developed. but christians were not allowed to loan money with interests. jews didn't have this restriction. and were necessary in the early development f business and commerce. so jews became known as money lenders (see 12th night) and a sterotype arose around them. this is where the modern stereotype came out with the jews controling the worlds money...blah blah blah but no one likes owing money, especially not people who cannot pay it back. another reason for the hatred.
lets fast forward awhile...jews, despite their adversity, have always maintained their communites and survived. they do this because they are close knit, because they care fo eachother, because they share the same values. its very different from a lot of poorly affected communities...when a member of the community raises up or does well he / she tends to integrate themselves with the dominate community rather then remain part of the minority culture. this didn't happen with the jews. this means that in times of struggle, jewish communies were able to take care of themselves.
so germany after wwwI was struggling, and because of their nature, jewish communites did well for themselves. jews became a scapegoat for a country looking for someone to blame. when a massive population is failing and af ew are thriving, the masses attack / blame the surviors and that's basicly what happened in germany.
(this is all just history with very little info on modern rascism and how that played into it)
and then the issue of palestine. it was a uk area. the un / uk gave it to the jews to give them a home or safe haven. essentially when the jews tried to escape germany or other perscecution they had no place to go. england turned them away. america turned them away. etc...it was a place to go that they could always be safe if the world turned on them again. at the time jews and palestinians were living there relatively peacefully.
in the modern era israel continues to thrive. it has turned the desert into fields and is the only western country in a 3rd world area. all of these arab countries currently existing hate each other. most of the palestinans in israel were kicked out of what was jordan into was is now israel. the irainians, egyptians, syrians, etc...they do not get along.....unless they have a common enemy. that enemy is israel.
very very very basic history...but you can hopefully get the gist and if you are actualy interested there are a million books to read that can explain it better and in depth.
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