STV vs AV+ Voting Systems?

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nathangeorge99
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For those of you who are pro-Proportional Representation, which system out of STV and AV+ (Provided the ratio of Constituency - List Seats is roughly 50:50) do you think is better, and why?
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barnetlad
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I prefer STV.

The main reason is the idea that you are represented by more than one person. Not only more likely to be one who you voted for, but also things such as age, gender, life experiences and other things beyond narrow party politics. No seat is a safe one anymore, as you could be replaced by someone from the same party. You can support someone who you respect but is not of the party you normally support.

In Barnet I am represented by a Conservative (not a party I will ever support), a Brexiteer (I supported Remain), a lawyer (not someone who has ever worked in a manual job, or not been to university), and someone without children (which may matter to some but not to me). To give an example.
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Gundabad(good)
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(Original post by nathangeorge99)
For those of you who are pro-Proportional Representation, which system out of STV and AV+ (Provided the ratio of Constituency - List Seats is roughly 50:50) do you think is better, and why?
If we had proportional representation in 2015, UKIP would have had around 120 seats in Parliament. Wouldn't have been good.
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HEWITTMAESTRO
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(Original post by Gundabad(good))
If we had proportional representation in 2015, UKIP would have had around 120 seats in Parliament. Wouldn't have been good.
And why would that not have been good?
You’re probably one of those who believes any criticism of immigration is outright xenophobia
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Gundabad(good)
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(Original post by HEWITTMAESTRO)
And why would that not have been good?
You’re probably one of those who believes any criticism of immigration is outright xenophobia
UKIP are the worst of the worst. BNP repainted so that their hate/jealousy/lies can continue.
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JOSH4598
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(Original post by Gundabad(good))
If we had proportional representation in 2015, UKIP would have had around 120 seats in Parliament. Wouldn't have been good.
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
UKIP are the worst of the worst. BNP repainted so that their hate/jealousy/lies can continue.
That's democracy though. UKIP won 3.8 million votes at the polls - you can't simply brand 3.8 million people as 'racists', 'xenophobes' or 'idiots' just because you may disagree with them. I could say it's outrageous that Labour won over 9 million votes, because personally their policies don't appeal to me. You just have to respect that people will have different views - you may deem it a disaster if UKIP do well whereas others may regard it a great success.
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DSilva
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
That's democracy though. UKIP won 3.8 million votes at the polls - you can't simply brand 3.8 million people as 'racists', 'xenophobes' or 'idiots' just because you may disagree with them. I could say it's outrageous that Labour won over 9 million votes, because personally their policies don't appeal to me. You just have to respect that people will have different views - you may deem it a disaster if UKIP do well whereas others may regard it a great success.
Quite. I find it bizarre when people argue against PR on the basis that 'it would mean a party I don't like gets more representation'.

I deplored UKIP. But I find it outrageous that 12% of the vote in 2015 only gave them a single seat.
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Gundabad(good)
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
That's democracy though. UKIP won 3.8 million votes at the polls - you can't simply brand 3.8 million people as 'racists', 'xenophobes' or 'idiots' just because you may disagree with them. I could say it's outrageous that Labour won over 9 million votes, because personally their policies don't appeal to me. You just have to respect that people will have different views - you may deem it a disaster if UKIP do well whereas others may regard it a great success.
Yeah. Racists, Xenophobes and Idiots would have seen UKIP as a great success.
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JOSH4598
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(Original post by Gundabad(good))
Yeah. Racists, Xenophobes and Idiots would have seen UKIP as a great success.
That's purely your opinion - any intelligent person would speak objectively about the election result as opposed to throwing their own bias around. UKIP are an official poltical party just like the Conservatives or Labour. It's a fair argument that they deserve fair representation based on the support they have democratically gained.
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Gundabad(good)
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
That's purely your opinion - any intelligent person would speak objectively about the election result as opposed to throwing their own bias around. UKIP are an official poltical party just like the Conservatives or Labour. It's a fair argument that they deserve fair representation based on the support they have democratically gained.
I'm glad that FPTP is in place. The Tories can win that way.
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