Will Labour ever be in power again?

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imlikeahermit
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#21
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#21
(Original post by SHallowvale)
How is support for BLM like giving the finger to every straight, white self respecting person outside London?

Also, who have the Labour party de-platformed?
Just to clarify, are you talking about BLM, as in the Marxist organisation, or the subject of racial equality? There is a difference.
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Burton Bridge
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#22
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#22
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Just to clarify, are you talking about BLM, as in the Marxist organisation, or the subject of racial equality? There is a difference.
Huge difference, correct.

There are different supporters of BLM as well.
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SHallowvale
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#23
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#23
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Just to clarify, are you talking about BLM, as in the Marxist organisation, or the subject of racial equality? There is a difference.
I am talking about the BLM movement, which the Labour party support. May you explain why their support for BLM is giving the middle finger to straight, white people?
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imlikeahermit
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#24
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#24
(Original post by SHallowvale)
I am talking about the BLM movement, which the Labour party support. May you explain why their support for BLM is giving the middle finger to straight, white people?
By BLM movement are you suggesting the organisation? Which has tweeted anti-Semitic stuff before, which is of little help the Labour Party.

Support for racial equality is not giving the middle finger, supporting a Marxist left wing nut job organisation that is nothing but a face for left wing extremist propaganda is.
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Rakas21
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#25
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#25
(Original post by SHallowvale)
I am talking about the BLM movement, which the Labour party support. May you explain why their support for BLM is giving the middle finger to straight, white people?
Your being overly specific here, i was speaking of the general pandering to minority issues be they regarding transgender toilets, race or other such things. The Labour Party in recent years has become very preachy and is apparent that a large body at the helm of the party take the view of Gordon Brown back in 2010, 'that bigoted woman' or better the Brexit 'they didn't know what they were voting for'. The British people do not need to be told that they are colonial racists who should not sing songs about the empire and should kneel to an organisation whose stated demands include reparations.

While these issues are secondary and have some support among segments of the electorate they are also frankly a massive turn-off to people north of the Watford Gap which is why i alluded to the fact that getting caught up in these issues and painting the average straight, white person as the devil does them no favours.

Hell, before the 'progressives' really took power i considered myself to be pretty liberal.
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SHallowvale
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Rakas21)
Your being overly specific here, i was speaking of the general pandering to minority issues be they regarding transgender toilets, race or other such things. The Labour Party in recent years has become very preachy and is apparent that a large body at the helm of the party take the view of Gordon Brown back in 2010, 'that bigoted woman' or better the Brexit 'they didn't know what they were voting for'. The British people do not need to be told that they are colonial racists who should not sing songs about the empire and should kneel to an organisation whose stated demands include reparations.

While these issues are secondary and have some support among segments of the electorate they are also frankly a massive turn-off to people north of the Watford Gap which is why i alluded to the fact that getting caught up in these issues and painting the average straight, white person as the devil does them no favours.

Hell, before the 'progressives' really took power i considered myself to be pretty liberal.
If I am being overly specific, you are being overly general and vague. When has the Labour Party told the British people that they are colonial racists? When has the Labour Party told people not to sing songs about the empire and to kneel to BLM (I assume this is the organisation you're referring to)? When have they painted straight white people as devils?

How are issues such as transgender toilets, race, etc, a middle finger to straight white people? They may not have anything to do with straight white people, but this does not mean it's a 'middle finger'.

You seem to be confusing Labour's policy of these issues with an attack on straight white people, which it is not.
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SHallowvale
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#27
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#27
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
By BLM movement are you suggesting the organisation? Which has tweeted anti-Semitic stuff before, which is of little help the Labour Party.

Support for racial equality is not giving the middle finger, supporting a Marxist left wing nut job organisation that is nothing but a face for left wing extremist propaganda is.
Since you had been the one to agree with another user's post, it's weird how you're asking me to clarify on what you had agreed with...?

Does the Labour party support the BLM organisation, specifically that which tweets out anti-Semitic things? From my understanding it only supports the BLM movement (or, by proxy, racial equality). Furthermore, what has this got to do with my original question? How is any of this a "middle finger" to straight white people?
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Iñigo de Loyola
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#28
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#28
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Odd for you to say that, given how Labour's support for BLM matches the overwhelming support for BLM in ethnic minority groups, particularly Black Britons.
Supporting the vague concept of black lives mattering and supporting the ideology behind BLM are two different things. Out of interest I wonder how many of those polled know about BLM's opposition to the nuclear family, how the leader of a BLM branch in Toronto described whites as sub-human or how one of the BLM founders described herself as a trained Marxist?
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Iñigo de Loyola
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Huge difference, correct.

There are different supporters of BLM as well.
PRSOM.
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SHallowvale
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#30
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#30
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Supporting the vague concept of black lives mattering and supporting the ideology behind BLM are two different things. Out of interest I wonder how many of those polled know about BLM's opposition to the nuclear family, how the leader of a BLM branch in Toronto described whites as sub-human or how one of the BLM founders described herself as a trained Marxist?
Absolutely none of that has anything to do with Labour, their support for the BLM or them not caring about the black community (as you say).
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Napp
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#31
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#31
(Original post by SHallowvale)
If I am being overly specific, you are being overly general and vague. When has the Labour Party told the British people that they are colonial racists? When has the Labour Party told people not to sing songs about the empire and to kneel to BLM (I assume this is the organisation you're referring to)? When have they painted straight white people as devils?

How are issues such as transgender toilets, race, etc, a middle finger to straight white people? They may not have anything to do with straight white people, but this does not mean it's a 'middle finger'.

You seem to be confusing Labour's policy of these issues with an attack on straight white people, which it is not.
If you support the BLM activists you de facto believe that. All you have to do is go to one of their riots to hear the bile being spewed against Britain, its history and anything to do with "straight normal men". Tolerance being rather fictional for their little group.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Napp)
If you support the BLM activists you de facto believe that. All you have to do is go to one of their riots to hear the bile being spewed against Britain, its history and anything to do with "straight normal men". Tolerance being rather fictional for their little group.
Yeah, I'll gladly look out the videos of BLM activists:
• demanding all whites pay reparations
• implying that all whites are privileged
• calling a black Tory a Uncle Tom
and many more racist things.
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SHallowvale
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Napp)
If you support the BLM activists you de facto believe that. All you have to do is go to one of their riots to hear the bile being spewed against Britain, its history and anything to do with "straight normal men". Tolerance being rather fictional for their little group.
Except you don't. Using myself as an example, I support the BLM activists yet I do not believe that.

There's a difference between viewing Britains colonial history as racist and viewing British people themselves to be colonial racists. I was hoping for an official statement from the HQ itself saying that British people are racists.
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Napp
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#34
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#34
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Except you don't. Using myself as an example, I support the BLM activists yet I do not believe that.

There's a difference between viewing Britains colonial history as racist and viewing British people themselves to be colonial racists. I was hoping for an official statement from the HQ itself saying that British people are racists.
Please dont make me explain why using a single person as an example actively undermines your argument...

Indeed it was racist my point to that though is so what? and who cares?
No there isnt.. you cant have a racist society without the people being racist, especially back then.
The fact of the matter is the blm lot are in of themselves racist, just look at their comments on "normal white men". Actually, whilst its a meme ill show you my (and many others) opinion on this; few people outside of active racists cared for this before but this unrelenting attack on British history, society and our values is doing nothing but radicalizing people. Few people ever viewed life through the dichotomy of blacks and whites but its these so called progressives (extremists) who have made racism more of a problem than ever and labour, unfortunately, is going along with it. As we all know the majority of Brits do not support this anti British culture/history clap trap yet you get some rabal rousing racists (like blm) who are furthering their devious agenda. Its a dreadful shame that a major party is even thinking of being close to this.
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Napp
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#35
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#35
(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Yeah, I'll gladly look out the videos of BLM activists:
• demanding all whites pay reparations
• implying that all whites are privileged
• calling a black Tory a Uncle Tom
and many more racist things.
Indeed.
Viewing blacks as equal to whites is perfectly proper and equitable but the way these blm extremists are going about it is doing nothing but alientating potential (pardon my use of their terminology) "allies" to the other side - there being only two sides and no neutrality apparently.

I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of being called a racist simply for not supporting these quacks and their disgusting ideology (not the blacks are equal but everything else).
Nevermind this filthy money grubbing racist theft they're after. I have never exploited a black nor benefited from slavery and ill be damned if im giving these money grubbers a penny, especially when they have done/suffered nothing to deserve it.
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SHallowvale
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#36
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#36
(Original post by Napp)
Please dont make me explain why using a single person as an example actively undermines your argument...

Indeed it was racist my point to that though is so what? and who cares?
No there isnt.. you cant have a racist society without the people being racist, especially back then.
The fact of the matter is the blm lot are in of themselves racist, just look at their comments on "normal white men". Actually, whilst its a meme ill show you my (and many others) opinion on this; few people outside of active racists cared for this before but this unrelenting attack on British history, society and our values is doing nothing but radicalizing people. Few people ever viewed life through the dichotomy of blacks and whites but its these so called progressives (extremists) who have made racism more of a problem than ever and labour, unfortunately, is going along with it. As we all know the majority of Brits do not support this anti British culture/history clap trap yet you get some rabal rousing racists (like blm) who are furthering their devious agenda. Its a dreadful shame that a major party is even thinking of being close to this.
I was responding to your comment that "If you support the BLM activists you de facto believe that.". Since you've made a sweeping claim about all people who support BLM activists, a single counter example was sufficient.

I never said anything about British society itself being racist, only it's colonial history.

Your long ramble is nothing more than a bunch of vague generalisations one after the next. How many BLM activists have made comments on "normal white men"? How many BLM activists believe that all Britons are racists? How many BLM activists themselves are racist? From the surveys I could find, a majority of Brits support BLM and also the removal of colonial statues (i.e part of our culture and history).
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Napp
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#37
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#37
(Original post by SHallowvale)
I was responding to your comment that "If you support the BLM activists you de facto believe that.". Since you've made a sweeping claim about all people who support BLM activists, a single counter example was sufficient.

I never said anything about British society itself being racist, only it's colonial history.

Your long ramble is nothing more than a bunch of vague generalisations one after the next. How many BLM activists have made comments on "normal white men"? How many BLM activists believe that all Britons are racists? How many BLM activists themselves are racist? From the surveys I could find, a majority of Brits support BLM and also the removal of colonial statues (i.e part of our culture and history).
Umm okay.

As i said, so what if its history is racist by todays standards?

In other words you have no real response to it? Instead of your own long ramble just say that next time.
A lot, simply go through their social media, videos etc. If you havent seen them youve clearly not actually been following their devious ideology.
Err you want an actual number ?
As has been explained to you repeatedly a majority support treating blacks as equal to whites (perfectly proper) there is a difference between that and supporting the extremist organisation 'blm'. One that labels westerners (whites) as the enemy and our history/society/way of life as something to be torn down for their perverse world view.
As to the statues i have yet to see any reputable poll suggest a majority of people support removing our statues because they may offend a couple of people. Especially when we see the loonies trying to remove Churchill et al. because of their vaguely questionable views at the time. The irony being they want to replace them with nobodies from a different culture that has no bearing on Britain.
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SHallowvale
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Napp)
Umm okay.

As i said, so what if its history is racist by todays standards?

In other words you have no real response to it? Instead of your own long ramble just say that next time.
A lot, simply go through their social media, videos etc. If you havent seen them youve clearly not actually been following their devious ideology.
Err you want an actual number ?
As has been explained to you repeatedly a majority support treating blacks as equal to whites (perfectly proper) there is a difference between that and supporting the extremist organisation 'blm'. One that labels westerners (whites) as the enemy and our history/society/way of life as something to be torn down for their perverse world view.
As to the statues i have yet to see any reputable poll suggest a majority of people support removing our statues because they may offend a couple of people. Especially when we see the loonies trying to remove Churchill et al. because of their vaguely questionable views at the time. The irony being they want to replace them with nobodies from a different culture that has no bearing on Britain.
The question was on whether the Labour Party have called British people colonial racists. You brought up their support for BLM activists and how BLM activists have called Britain's colonial history racist. I responded by saying that calling Britain's colonial history racist is not the same thing as calling British people, today, racist. In other words, we're no closer to demonstrating that the Labour Party have called British people colonial racists (let alone believe this as an ideology).

There's not much that can be said about your argument since it's dependent upon sweeping, unjustified generalisations. But let's work on this. You've said that BLM activists are racists and believe a devious ideology, so provide some examples. That burden is on you, not me.

Could you give examples of BLM activists who have said things like "normal white men"? Could you give examples of BLM activists who have labelled all westerners (or white people) as enemies? How many black people support the removal of Churchill's statue?

Of course numbers are important. If you're claiming that entire group of activists believe X, Y and Z then you should be prepared to give figures to support that claim. Otherwise you're just generalising an entire group of people.

What I said about the statues earlier was slightly incorrect; the polls I found showed that a majority approved of the removal of Colston's statue (support was strong both nationally and in Bristol). You're right that a majority disagree with Churchill's statue being removed.
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Napp
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#39
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#39
(Original post by SHallowvale)
The question was on whether the Labour Party have called British people colonial racists. You brought up their support for BLM activists and how BLM activists have called Britain's colonial history racist. I responded by saying that calling Britain's colonial history racist is not the same thing as calling British people, today, racist. In other words, we're no closer to demonstrating that the Labour Party have called British people colonial racists (let alone believe this as an ideology).
Err i think youll find you brought up their support for blm, i merely commented on it. Either way, you support the people you ipso facto support their view, no?
There's not much that can be said about your argument since it's dependent upon sweeping, unjustified generalisations. But let's work on this. You've said that BLM activists are racists and believe a devious ideology, so provide some examples. That burden is on you, not me.
And which bit is unjustified and how exactly?
If you cant be bothered to actually watch the interviews with them, their manifestos etc. that is entirely on you im afraid. suffice it to say the regular inovactions that if you're not with them you're against them (ergo on the side of racists) is a case in point.
Could you give examples of BLM activists who have said things like "normal white men"? Could you give examples of BLM activists who have labelled all westerners (or white people) as enemies? How many black people support the removal of Churchill's statue?
Google is your friend, again though you have most certainly seen comments pertaining to "cis white men" given theyre all over this site as well. Don't sealion, its unbecoming.
Who said anything about blacks? We're talking about the blm lot, not a race.
Of course numbers are important. If you're claiming that entire group of activists believe X, Y and Z then you should be prepared to give figures to support that claim. Otherwise you're just generalising an entire group of people.
Don't be absurd. Evidently i have not been conducting personal counting of the numbers of demonstrators and you asking for such ludicrous information is hardly showing you in a good light here as not only does it miss the point but it is obviously nothing more than trying to divert the conversation.
Of course we're generalizing. We can hardly talk about each on individually.
What I said about the statues earlier was slightly incorrect; the polls I found showed that a majority approved of the removal of Colston's statue (support was strong both nationally and in Bristol). You're right that a majority disagree with Churchill's statue being removed.
Indeed. Then again comparing the two is somewhat ridiculous, no? One being a national hero (despite what the undesirables have to say on the matter) the other being a mere trader i.e. rather insignificant.

Either way, find me a majority of people who wish to see Britains national heroes, its history, its culture torn down and replaced with African culture (which seems to be the call for some bizare reason) be it "decolonizing the history curriculum" and replacing it with colonial history and so on.
There is a good reason labour and the so called "progressives" were destroyed in the election. Running on such anti British ideals is unpopular. Whilst no one disagrees with blacks being treated equally (as they already are) most do disagree with rubbishing our nations history and values on the alter of some fictional rubbish that Britain is not but the most evil country in history by virtue of the empire.
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SHallowvale
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Napp)
Err i think youll find you brought up their support for blm, i merely commented on it. Either way, you support the people you ipso facto support their view, no?

And which bit is unjustified and how exactly?
If you cant be bothered to actually watch the interviews with them, their manifestos etc. that is entirely on you im afraid. suffice it to say the regular inovactions that if you're not with them you're against them (ergo on the side of racists) is a case in point.

Google is your friend, again though you have most certainly seen comments pertaining to "cis white men" given theyre all over this site as well. Don't sealion, its unbecoming.
Who said anything about blacks? We're talking about the blm lot, not a race.

Don't be absurd. Evidently i have not been conducting personal counting of the numbers of demonstrators and you asking for such ludicrous information is hardly showing you in a good light here as not only does it miss the point but it is obviously nothing more than trying to divert the conversation.
Of course we're generalizing. We can hardly talk about each on individually.

Indeed. Then again comparing the two is somewhat ridiculous, no? One being a national hero (despite what the undesirables have to say on the matter) the other being a mere trader i.e. rather insignificant.

Either way, find me a majority of people who wish to see Britains national heroes, its history, its culture torn down and replaced with African culture (which seems to be the call for some bizare reason) be it "decolonizing the history curriculum" and replacing it with colonial history and so on.
There is a good reason labour and the so called "progressives" were destroyed in the election. Running on such anti British ideals is unpopular. Whilst no one disagrees with blacks being treated equally (as they already are) most do disagree with rubbishing our nations history and values on the alter of some fictional rubbish that Britain is not but the most evil country in history by virtue of the empire.
I had only asked when Labour said that British people are colonial racists. You brought up BLM's view on history, "All you have to do is go to one of their riots to hear the bile being spewed against Britain, its history", so... 🤷*♀️

I've called your claims unjustified because they're... not justified. You haven't given any examples. If you make a claim about someone or about an organisation then the burden of proof is on you, especially if you want to paint an entire group with the same brush. The comments I've seen / heard from BLM activists are contrary to what you have seen / heard, hence why I have asked for examples.

Your argument about Labour and their 'de facto' support for the idea that British people are colonial racists is dependent on the assumption that they support the racist elements of BLM. It's not "diverting the conversation" to press on that assumption, it's essential to do so.

The BLM movement or our colonial history were issues during the last election...? That's news to me.
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