Gove plans to move large chunks of the government out of London

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Gundabad(good)
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#21
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#21
(Original post by paul514)
Good we shouldn’t have none geographically essential government jobs based in London with the higher salaries when we could pay less elsewhere and boost the economy of where they are moved to.
Will those deprived areas have the facilities/safety to ensure that the civil servants work effectively?
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paul514
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
Will those deprived areas have the facilities/safety to ensure that the civil servants work effectively?
The safety for civil servants? Wtf? The facilities is generally an office too.

I’m baffled by your comment
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Quady
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
Keep everything in London!
So relocate civil servants to London?
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Gundabad(good)
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Quady)
So relocate civil servants to London?
Yes. All of them. London should be the centre of government because it is the centre of the economy, arts, culture, events, royalty and tourism.
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Quady
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
Yes. All of them. London should be the centre of government because it is the centre of the economy, arts, culture, events, royalty and tourism.
Interesting. So....
- No diplomats should be based outside the UK?
- HMRC/DWP/DVLA call centres should be within the M25? (why....?)
- DEFRA shouldn't have any presence near anywhere rural?
- UK Border Force would be at London City and Heathrow airports, but no passport control at Manchester Airport or Dover?
- All prisons should be in London?
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richard10012
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#26
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#26
But Is this the government plan to level up? Not invest in the north but just move civil service out of London. I am a civil service and my work is not just focused on London but the whole of the U.K. I don’t know how moving to the north will help, I am not going to be walking around chatting to the general public.
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paul514
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#27
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#27
(Original post by richard10012)
But Is this the government plan to level up? Not invest in the north but just move civil service out of London. I am a civil service and my work is not just focused on London but the whole of the U.K. I don’t know how moving to the north will help, I am not going to be walking around chatting to the general public.
Well you would be working in an area that you would need to move to.

That’s you spending in the local economy and being influenced by the non London economy and culture which is a very different world, that should help to run the country better.

The economic point on its own is enough to do it.
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DSilva
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#28
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#28
(Original post by ColinDent)
And will be even less so once further decentralisation occurs.
Oh and the powers within the Civil service are still very much held in the corridors of Whitehall (around 68% of senior civil servants according to the article you posted) , that is what needs to be broken up.
It's a bit sleight of hand. Simply moving civil servants out of London won't decentralise power or give more powers to regions.

Perhaps the government itself should move out of London?
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Quady
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#29
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#29
(Original post by richard10012)
But Is this the government plan to level up? Not invest in the north but just move civil service out of London. I am a civil service and my work is not just focused on London but the whole of the U.K. I don’t know how moving to the north will help, I am not going to be walking around chatting to the general public.
You'd lose your london allowance and your office space would cost less. Simples.
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paul514
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#30
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#30
(Original post by DSilva)
It's a bit sleight of hand. Simply moving civil servants out of London won't decentralise power or give more powers to regions.

Perhaps the government itself should move out of London?
They will never do that on a permanent basis, I think they should though.
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CatusStarbright
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#31
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I thought this was a Cummings initiative as part of his plans to reform the civil service, rather than a Gove one.
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eazy99
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
Yes. All of them. London should be the centre of government because it is the centre of the economy, arts, culture, events, royalty and tourism.
As a Long term civil servant, let me just say this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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eazy99
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Quady)
You'd lose your london allowance and your office space would cost less. Simples.
London allowance is 3k.

Tube would cost more than 3 k a year on its own.
Travel times would be a minimum of 50 minutes to work and all other costs would be more expensive.
You wouldn't be able to use your car and would live / travel in a shoe box / tube.

As a long term civil servant who has worked in London, let me tell you that you are miles better off financially living outside of London than within.
The 3k London Weight does didly squat, it doesnt even upt he costs.
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Quady
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#34
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#34
(Original post by eazy99)
London allowance is 3k.

Tube would cost more than 3 k a year on its own.
Travel times would be a minimum of 50 minutes to work and all other costs would be more expensive.
You wouldn't be able to use your car and would live / travel in a shoe box / tube.

As a long term civil servant who has worked in London, let me tell you that you are miles better off financially living outside of London than within.
The 3k London Weight does didly squat, it doesnt even upt he costs.
Might be £3k in your department, in my experience its typically £4k. I opened up CS jobs, first ad I looked at was £4k to £5k
https://www.civilservicejobs.service...ZiZGJiMWI0MTk=

But let's use your £3k. 22,000 jobs. Thats £66m/year.

Can you explain how its financially better to live in London than outside as a Civil Servant? I work in the centre of Glasgow. I walk to work from my two bed flat which cost £130k when I bought it in 2014. When I worked in Warrington for the five years prior to that I walked to work from my house which was £400/month to rent. The London uplift surely doesn't offset that?
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eazy99
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#35
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#35
(Original post by Quady)
Might be £3k in your department, in my experience its typically £4k. I opened up CS jobs, first ad I looked at was £4k to £5k
https://www.civilservicejobs.service...ZiZGJiMWI0MTk=

But let's use your £3k. 22,000 jobs. Thats £66m/year.

Can you explain how its financially better to live in London than outside as a Civil Servant? I work in the centre of Glasgow. I walk to work from my two bed flat which cost £130k when I bought it in 2014. When I worked in Warrington for the five years prior to that I walked to work from my house which was £400/month to rent. The London uplift surely doesn't offset that?
You speak like I havent worked in multiple departments.

I am an experienced accountant.
I have worked in Management Accounting, Financial Accounting, Finance Business Partnering, Business Intelligence and cashflow management in the civil service.
I have worked for 4 different Central Government departments.

Below Grade 7, London Weighting is only 3k and above 7 sometimes rarely it can go up to 5 k.
That is nothing compared to the poor living standards and high costs of living in London.
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Quady
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#36
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#36
(Original post by eazy99)
You speak like I havent worked in multiple departments.

I am an experienced accountant.
I have worked in Management Accounting, Financial Accounting, Finance Business Partnering, Business Intelligence and cashflow management in the civil service.
I have worked for 4 different Central Government departments.

Below Grade 7, London Weighting is only 3k and above 7 sometimes rarely it can go up to 5 k.
That is nothing compared to the poor living standards and high costs of living in London.
Fair enough, I said in my experience and I've not looked at London salaries under G7 much. My salary experience has been HEO(D) in DWP where everyone was on a London equivalent, £4k higher that national, then DFID and FCO G7 which was about four and a half higher. Thats similar to OGDs at that level, which you've agreed with. My current department, SG, has almost no staff based in London so there isnt a separate scale.

That said, you do seem to have missed my point entirely. I never suggested the London allowance made up for the standard of living difference. My point was staff in the provinces cost less due to not needing to pay a location supplement.

The level of the wage differential (or lack thereof) is entirely why I've cut my career in the provinces. The only time I had a London based role I flew down from Glasgow every week.
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barnetlad
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#37
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#37
We have too much centralisation in government, and are too London centric in our policy and approach. Having parts of government elsewhere, even if most of the time policy makers were to work from home, might help change this. In addition to the cost savings and benefits to other parts of the regions concerned.
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Gundabad(good)
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Quady)
Interesting. So....
- No diplomats should be based outside the UK?
- HMRC/DWP/DVLA call centres should be within the M25? (why....?)
- DEFRA shouldn't have any presence near anywhere rural?
- UK Border Force would be at London City and Heathrow airports, but no passport control at Manchester Airport or Dover?
- All prisons should be in London?
No. But the prisons can all be outside London.
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Quady
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Gundabad(good))
No.
No?
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Gundabad(good)
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Quady)
No?
I can tell that you want to undermine the importance of London. Let's get one thing straight: Coastal villages represent little importance in the grand scheme of things.
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