Protected by EU Withdrawal Agreement with pre-settled status?

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Daniekie
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I'm an EU student starting an Access to HE course this September. In September 2021 I want to start a course at university.
Now that there have been updates regarding EU students studying in the UK after Brexit, I'm a bit worried.

On the university website it says EU students will no longer be eligible for home fee status for courses starting in 2021. However, EU nationals benefitting from Citizens' Rights under the EU Withdrawal Agreement will NOT be affected by this.
I've applied for pre-settled status. Does this mean if I get pre-settled status the tuition fees would be the same for me as for UK students?
Thanks!
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murpo
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(Original post by Daniekie)
I'm an EU student starting an Access to HE course this September. In September 2021 I want to start a course at university.
Now that there have been updates regarding EU students studying in the UK after Brexit, I'm a bit worried.

On the university website it says EU students will no longer be eligible for home fee status for courses starting in 2021. However, EU nationals benefitting from Citizens' Rights under the EU Withdrawal Agreement will NOT be affected by this.
I've applied for pre-settled status. Does this mean if I get pre-settled status the tuition fees would be the same for me as for UK students?
Thanks!
Hi you will be ineligible for funding unless you have settled status.
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Daniekie
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(Original post by murpo)
Hi you will be ineligible for funding unless you have settled status.
Thanks for your reply I contacted SFE and they said it’s not clear yet since the government are still in discussion.
Seems weird that EU students wouldn’t be able to get funding with pre-settled status. Hopefully the new rules will only apply to those who aren’t protected by the EU settlement scheme, like students who don’t already live here in the UK (before 31st of December 2020).
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murpo
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(Original post by Daniekie)
Thanks for your reply I contacted SFE and they said it’s not clear yet since the government are still in discussion.
Seems weird that EU students wouldn’t be able to get funding with pre-settled status. Hopefully the new rules will only apply to those who aren’t protected by the EU settlement scheme, like students who don’t already live here in the UK (before 31st of December 2020).
The government are not still in discussion, whichever advisor told you that provided you with wrong information. Here is the information the government released https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...ort-in-england
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Daniekie
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(Original post by murpo)
The government are not still in discussion, whichever advisor told you that provided you with wrong information. Here is the information the government released https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...ort-in-england
Read the link you sent me lol. “It will not affect students starting courses in academic year 2020/21, nor those EU, other EEA and Swiss nationals benefitting from Citizens’ Rights under the EU Withdrawal Agreement, EEA EFTA Separation Agreement or Swiss Citizens’ Rights Agreement respectively.”

The EU Settlement Scheme is part of the Withdrawal Agreement. So where did you read EU students have to have settled status and not pre-settled?
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nermin01
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I am in the same situation. Would you be able to clarify as I haven't really understood the conclusion. The students that have enrolled in an Access Course which leads to an Undergraduate Degree (2021 entry) would be exempt from paying international fees if they have settled OR pre-settled in the UK before end of the year? Would appreciate some clarification. Thank you
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Daniekie
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(Original post by nermin01)
I am in the same situation. Would you be able to clarify as I haven't really understood the conclusion. The students that have enrolled in an Access Course which leads to an Undergraduate Degree (2021 entry) would be exempt from paying international fees if they have settled OR pre-settled in the UK before end of the year? Would appreciate some clarification. Thank you
Hi, today I called SFE and got more information.

At first, she said they're just not sure yet how all this will affect EU students exactly, but that EU students have to have been living in the UK for 5 years prior to the start of the course to be eligible for home fee status.
She then mentioned the maintenance loan and I said I'm not interested in the maintenance loan because I know I can't get it at this point (there's certain criteria EU citizens have to meet to be eligible). When I said this she told me there haven't been any updates on Brexit affecting JUST the tuition fee loan. It's unlikely this will suddenly change, otherwise they would have already announced this.
To them, student finance means the tuition fee loan AND maintenance loan. In that case, EU citizens have to have lived in the UK for 5 years. She told me if I just apply for the tuition fee loan I should be fine and will get the minimum amount of money to cover the tuition fees.

EU students WILL still be able to get funding but only if they have pre-settled or settled status. I then asked how much I would get should it be the case where EU students will end up having to pay around £14.000 a year (like international students). She said if that's the case it's likely that SFE would then give the EU students more money to make up the difference in fees.
This became clear towards the end so it was a bit confusing but that's the conclusion.

Of course, it's not final until official announcements have been made but this is what they know at this point. They'll probably have exact details around January/February.
I'll keep checking for more information lol. Hope this was helpful!

Have you applied for pre-settled status?
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nermin01
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(Original post by Daniekie)
Hi, today I called SFE and got more information.

At first, she said they're just not sure yet how all this will affect EU students exactly, but that EU students have to have been living in the UK for 5 years prior to the start of the course to be eligible for home fee status.
She then mentioned the maintenance loan and I said I'm not interested in the maintenance loan because I know I can't get it at this point (there's certain criteria EU citizens have to meet to be eligible). When I said this she told me there haven't been any updates on Brexit affecting JUST the tuition fee loan. It's unlikely this will suddenly change, otherwise they would have already announced this.
To them, student finance means the tuition fee loan AND maintenance loan. In that case, EU citizens have to have lived in the UK for 5 years. She told me if I just apply for the tuition fee loan I should be fine and will get the minimum amount of money to cover the tuition fees.

EU students WILL still be able to get funding but only if they have pre-settled or settled status. I then asked how much I would get should it be the case where EU students will end up having to pay around £14.000 a year (like international students). She said if that's the case it's likely that SFE would then give the EU students more money to make up the difference in fees.
This became clear towards the end so it was a bit confusing but that's the conclusion.

Of course, it's not final until official announcements have been made but this is what they know at this point. They'll probably have exact details around January/February.
I'll keep checking for more information lol. Hope this was helpful!

Have you applied for pre-settled status?
Thank you so much for your answer, much appreciated. I have not applied to pre-settled status as I haven't lived in the UK ever. I was supposed to move for this Access Course in August. If I do apply for pre-settled status soon would I be exempt from international fees for next year uni entry you think? Or is it just for those who have already lived before in the UK? Secondly, what has your university told you about this recent change? Are you the only European student in the class? Do you intend on attending the course in September even though you're not sure what will happen? By the way, I've read it's much more than 14k a year it's around 20k - 25k minimum
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Daniekie
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(Original post by nermin01)
Thank you so much for your answer, much appreciated. I have not applied to pre-settled status as I haven't lived in the UK ever. I was supposed to move for this Access Course in August. If I do apply for pre-settled status soon would I be exempt from international fees for next year uni entry you think? Or is it just for those who have already lived before in the UK? Secondly, what has your university told you about this recent change? Are you the only European student in the class? Do you intend on attending the course in September even though you're not sure what will happen? By the way, I've read it's much more than 14k a year it's around 20k - 25k minimum
I would move to the UK as soon as possible if you are able to. What kind of accommodation will you be having?
It sounds like you would be in the same position as me. So as long as you only intend to apply for the tuition fee loan, your fees should be covered by SFE. Even if EU students with pre-settled or settled will have to pay international fees, the SFE employee told me they would then cover the difference.
However, from what is clear now we would be protected by the EU Withdrawal Agreement and therefore still have the same rights (and fees) as home students. This would be the case if you move here before the end of December 2020. So it doesn't matter as long as you're here before that date. (This isn't the case for the maintenance loan)
Do keep in mind that this is just what I've been told and things could still change (slightly).

I called the university I want to go to in September 2021 but they weren't much help. They mentioned a visa which I wouldn't need so it seems like they don't understand the changes yet.
I don't know if I'm the only EU student in my Access year class yet.

I do intend on going to university next year so I will be starting the Access course this September. Even though it's all a bit vague and uncertain, with the information I have at the moment it sounds like the EU nationals on the Settlement Scheme will be protected.
With regards to the international fees; the university I want to go to charges around £14k for international students. Obviously this depends on the university. Where are you thinking of applying to?

You should call SFE (EU department) and explain your situation just so you can talk to them about it and get some reassurance yourself. Make sure you say you would only apply for the tuition fee loan and not the maintenance loan (if that's the case for you).

If you have anything else you wanna talk about you can send me a PM our situations seem really similar and I've only lived in England since the beginning of June this year!
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Shirohige
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(Original post by Daniekie)
I would move to the UK as soon as possible if you are able to. What kind of accommodation will you be having?
It sounds like you would be in the same position as me. So as long as you only intend to apply for the tuition fee loan, your fees should be covered by SFE. Even if EU students with pre-settled or settled will have to pay international fees, the SFE employee told me they would then cover the difference.
However, from what is clear now we would be protected by the EU Withdrawal Agreement and therefore still have the same rights (and fees) as home students. This would be the case if you move here before the end of December 2020. So it doesn't matter as long as you're here before that date. (This isn't the case for the maintenance loan)
Do keep in mind that this is just what I've been told and things could still change (slightly).

I called the university I want to go to in September 2021 but they weren't much help. They mentioned a visa which I wouldn't need so it seems like they don't understand the changes yet.
I don't know if I'm the only EU student in my Access year class yet.

I do intend on going to university next year so I will be starting the Access course this September. Even though it's all a bit vague and uncertain, with the information I have at the moment it sounds like the EU nationals on the Settlement Scheme will be protected.
With regards to the international fees; the university I want to go to charges around £14k for international students. Obviously this depends on the university. Where are you thinking of applying to?

You should call SFE (EU department) and explain your situation just so you can talk to them about it and get some reassurance yourself. Make sure you say you would only apply for the tuition fee loan and not the maintenance loan (if that's the case for you).

If you have anything else you wanna talk about you can send me a PM our situations seem really similar and I've only lived in England since the beginning of June this year!
Hi

To be honest apart from that one annoucnement i imagine its not clear to anything, now bear in mind that it was only made quite recently, things could change and i wouldn't be surprised if SFE still don't have further guidance, which is understandable with whats going on in the world right now.
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Daniekie
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(Original post by Shirohige)
Hi

To be honest apart from that one annoucnement i imagine its not clear to anything, now bear in mind that it was only made quite recently, things could change and i wouldn't be surprised if SFE still don't have further guidance, which is understandable with whats going on in the world right now.
I’m sure they will come out with more detailed information, but they’re too unprepared. EU students need to know more because they have decisions to make. The announcements they make are so vague they should be more specific so people don’t get worried if they shouldn’t.
Like the employee on the phone thought I meant tuition fee and maintenance loan because that’s what most people would apply for.
EU nationals have to be protected (under certain criteria ofc) by law now.

What I’ve been told on the phone is what they know for now but yeah it could change.
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heidixxxx
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Hi I'm in a similar situation and also have been wondering a lot about what the "EU nationals benefitting from Citizens' Rights under the EU Withdrawal Agreement will not be affected by this" means. I will be a full time student in England in 2020/2021 academic year and will come into the UK in October 2020 to get my pre-settled status. However, while studying at uni this year, I would also like to reapply to another course which I would then start in the 2021/2022 academic year. Since I'm a 2020-enter uni student I should be eligible for 4 years of student finance. SFE usually covers 3 years of fees + a gift year if one wants to change their course, so I believe SFE will have to cover my fees for the next 4 years on the basis of my entrance in 2020. The only struggle I'm having is that if I enter the new course in the 2021/2022 cohort I don't know if I will be eligible for the home fees with my pre-settled status only. Did you find out any more info on what the fees will be for pre-settled Europeans?

I've done some research on the differences in settled & pre-settled status as well. It appears to me that both in pre- and settled status you are benefitting from citizen's rights such as unlimited work, free movement, access to education etc. The only thing pre-settled EUs are not eligible for is benefits from the state such as financial unemployment benefits and so on. Nowhere does it states in the "state benefits" that fees subsidy/education is one of them, which makes me interpret the statement that pre-settled EUs should be eligible for home fees. There's also multiple statements made by the government that if you come into the UK before 2021 nothing should change for you and you shall be treated following the EU regulations. Everything is very unclear at the moment but if all the statements they released hold, I literally don't see a reason why pre-settled people wouldn't be eligible for the home fees!
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B999555
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Hi all,
I am an EU student as well, now into my third year and planning my applications for master’s degrees. Just like you and many other EU students, I’ve been granted pre-settled status and I am trying to understand (say, before it is too late to apply), whether we will be eligible for pre-settled status.

I’ve done by bit of research — somewhat unsuccessfully, since no clear answer has emerged yet, and likely won’t until later in the term — and think there are some relevant qualifications to make.

As you correctly pointed out, several sources ranging from Universities UK to GOV.UK to the withdrawal agreement, seem to indicate that
a) pre-settled status counts as benefitting from citizen’s rights
b) citizen’s rights would make holders eligible for home fees and student loans.
Hence:
Pre-settled status would make holders eligible for home fees and student loans.

Now, ‘Would make eligible’ is key. There seems to be a difference between the following two interpretations, and I believe this difference is the major point of unclarity:
a) having pre-settled status (I.e benefitting from citizen’s rights under EUSS) precludes the announced changes from applying to the student in 2021/22
b) it will be necessary to having pre-settled status for the changes not to apply.

a) and b) are rather different.
The former just says nothing changes and that we do retain our rights as if we were still in the EU, which is closer to the ‘secure your rights’ and ‘access on the same bases as you do now’ principles of the settlement scheme and the withdrawal agreement.
The latter instead says that having pre-settled status is not a sufficient condition to avoid changes as in a). It just states it is a necessary condition for changes not to apply.

To wit, looking into SFE requirements, a Major issue for getting student loans and home fee rates is to show 3 years ordinary residence in the UK.
Those of us who have gained Pre-settled status as a result of being in the UK to complete their degree, most certainly cannot show ordinary residence in the UK (only that we have ‘lived in the UK for the purpose of studying’).
But certainly, those EU nationals in the UK who satisfy the 3 years ordinary residence requirement (since, for example, they live with their families here) will also satisfy the pre-settled status requirements.

It is mainly speculation, but this makes it look as pre-settled status being a necessary condition for home fees and loans, provided one does meet the ordinary residence requirement. Equivalently, that one who has ordinarily resided here for 3 years will be eligible for home fees and loans conditionally on them also having applied for pre-settled status.

That we EU students with pre-settled status gained during our (E.g) bachelor’s degree due to being here for the sole or main purpose of studying, may just be altogether immaterial to the question at hand

Of course, I really do hope I am very wrong, and that the situation will be scenario a).
After all, most of my peers have moved here to study conditionally on being able to complete their studies more generally, as opposed to their course for the time being.
(Original post by heidixxxx)
Hi I'm in a similar situation and also have been wondering a lot about what the "EU nationals benefitting from Citizens' Rights under the EU Withdrawal Agreement will not be affected by this" means. I will be a full time student in England in 2020/2021 academic year and will come into the UK in October 2020 to get my pre-settled status. However, while studying at uni this year, I would also like to reapply to another course which I would then start in the 2021/2022 academic year. Since I'm a 2020-enter uni student I should be eligible for 4 years of student finance. SFE usually covers 3 years of fees + a gift year if one wants to change their course, so I believe SFE will have to cover my fees for the next 4 years on the basis of my entrance in 2020. The only struggle I'm having is that if I enter the new course in the 2021/2022 cohort I don't know if I will be eligible for the home fees with my pre-settled status only. Did you find out any more info on what the fees will be for pre-settled Europeans?

I've done some research on the differences in settled & pre-settled status as well. It appears to me that both in pre- and settled status you are benefitting from citizen's rights such as unlimited work, free movement, access to education etc. The only thing pre-settled EUs are not eligible for is benefits from the state such as financial unemployment benefits and so on. Nowhere does it states in the "state benefits" that fees subsidy/education is one of them, which makes me interpret the statement that pre-settled EUs should be eligible for home fees. There's also multiple statements made by the government that if you come into the UK before 2021 nothing should change for you and you shall be treated following the EU regulations. Everything is very unclear at the moment but if all the statements they released hold, I literally don't see a reason why pre-settled people wouldn't be eligible for the home fees!
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Daniekie
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(Original post by heidixxxx)
Hi I'm in a similar situation and also have been wondering a lot about what the "EU nationals benefitting from Citizens' Rights under the EU Withdrawal Agreement will not be affected by this" means. I will be a full time student in England in 2020/2021 academic year and will come into the UK in October 2020 to get my pre-settled status. However, while studying at uni this year, I would also like to reapply to another course which I would then start in the 2021/2022 academic year. Since I'm a 2020-enter uni student I should be eligible for 4 years of student finance. SFE usually covers 3 years of fees + a gift year if one wants to change their course, so I believe SFE will have to cover my fees for the next 4 years on the basis of my entrance in 2020. The only struggle I'm having is that if I enter the new course in the 2021/2022 cohort I don't know if I will be eligible for the home fees with my pre-settled status only. Did you find out any more info on what the fees will be for pre-settled Europeans?

I've done some research on the differences in settled & pre-settled status as well. It appears to me that both in pre- and settled status you are benefitting from citizen's rights such as unlimited work, free movement, access to education etc. The only thing pre-settled EUs are not eligible for is benefits from the state such as financial unemployment benefits and so on. Nowhere does it states in the "state benefits" that fees subsidy/education is one of them, which makes me interpret the statement that pre-settled EUs should be eligible for home fees. There's also multiple statements made by the government that if you come into the UK before 2021 nothing should change for you and you shall be treated following the EU regulations. Everything is very unclear at the moment but if all the statements they released hold, I literally don't see a reason why pre-settled people wouldn't be eligible for the home fees!
Hey, from what I understand I think you'll be fine getting the funding since you're starting your course this September.
I didn't find out any more information, but the man from SFE advised me to start my Access course anyway because he thinks I would be able to get the funding based on the fact I'll have had funding before (this year for my Access course).

The statements they make aren't very clear which can be very frustrating for people who really need to know, especially the students who have to move to the UK before knowing anything.
From the statements they've made so far, it does seem like pre-settled students should still be eligible for home fees as long as they are in the UK before the 31st of December 2020. Let's just hope so!
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Daniekie
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(Original post by B999555)
Hi all,
I am an EU student as well, now into my third year and planning my applications for master’s degrees. Just like you and many other EU students, I’ve been granted pre-settled status and I am trying to understand (say, before it is too late to apply), whether we will be eligible for pre-settled status.

I’ve done by bit of research — somewhat unsuccessfully, since no clear answer has emerged yet, and likely won’t until later in the term — and think there are some relevant qualifications to make.

As you correctly pointed out, several sources ranging from Universities UK to GOV.UK to the withdrawal agreement, seem to indicate that
a) pre-settled status counts as benefitting from citizen’s rights
b) citizen’s rights would make holders eligible for home fees and student loans.
Hence:
Pre-settled status would make holders eligible for home fees and student loans.

Now, ‘Would make eligible’ is key. There seems to be a difference between the following two interpretations, and I believe this difference is the major point of unclarity:
a) having pre-settled status (I.e benefitting from citizen’s rights under EUSS) precludes the announced changes from applying to the student in 2021/22
b) it will be necessary to having pre-settled status for the changes not to apply.

a) and b) are rather different.
The former just says nothing changes and that we do retain our rights as if we were still in the EU, which is closer to the ‘secure your rights’ and ‘access on the same bases as you do now’ principles of the settlement scheme and the withdrawal agreement.
The latter instead says that having pre-settled status is not a sufficient condition to avoid changes as in a). It just states it is a necessary condition for changes not to apply.

To wit, looking into SFE requirements, a Major issue for getting student loans and home fee rates is to show 3 years ordinary residence in the UK.
Those of us who have gained Pre-settled status as a result of being in the UK to complete their degree, most certainly cannot show ordinary residence in the UK (only that we have ‘lived in the UK for the purpose of studying’).
But certainly, those EU nationals in the UK who satisfy the 3 years ordinary residence requirement (since, for example, they live with their families here) will also satisfy the pre-settled status requirements.

It is mainly speculation, but this makes it look as pre-settled status being a necessary condition for home fees and loans, provided one does meet the ordinary residence requirement. Equivalently, that one who has ordinarily resided here for 3 years will be eligible for home fees and loans conditionally on them also having applied for pre-settled status.

That we EU students with pre-settled status gained during our (E.g) bachelor’s degree due to being here for the sole or main purpose of studying, may just be altogether immaterial to the question at hand

Of course, I really do hope I am very wrong, and that the situation will be scenario a).
After all, most of my peers have moved here to study conditionally on being able to complete their studies more generally, as opposed to their course for the time being.
Hi
I spoke to several people from SFE and one of them told me the 3 year residency requirement is 3 years residency in the EU, but he might be wrong, who knows.
Someone else from SFE told me it is unlikely anything will change for just the tuition fee loan. So she was trying to say the statements made only apply to the 'complete package' (tuition fee loan AND maintenance loan).

They do look at it case by case so it might just depend on everyone's personal situation. I will find it very strange if people with pre-settled status don't get the same protection and rights as people with settled status.

Hopefully they'll make it clear soon
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B999555
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(Original post by Daniekie)
Hi
I spoke to several people from SFE and one of them told me the 3 year residency requirement is 3 years residency in the EU, but he might be wrong, who knows.
Someone else from SFE told me it is unlikely anything will change for just the tuition fee loan. So she was trying to say the statements made only apply to the 'complete package' (tuition fee loan AND maintenance loan).

They do look at it case by case so it might just depend on everyone's personal situation. I will find it very strange if people with pre-settled status don't get the same protection and rights as people with settled status.

Hopefully they'll make it clear soon
Hi Danieke,
Thank you for your reply.

When you say SFE told you that the 3 years requirement means 3 years residence in the EU, do you mean people with pre-settled status will need to show 3 year ordinary residence in the EU (as opposed to in the U.K.) even if starting in 2021?

That is, do you take it to mean that EU students would be eligible to apply as if UK/EU Nationals (as it currently is) were still a relevant category for fees and finance?

Also, when you say you may (allegedly) be eligible for funding based on the fact you received funding before, what does that exactly mean? Or is there any reference for that on SFE regulations for previous years?

Thank you!
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Daniekie
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(Original post by B999555)
Hi Danieke,
Thank you for your reply.

When you say SFE told you that the 3 years requirement means 3 years residence in the EU, do you mean people with pre-settled status will need to show 3 year ordinary residence in the EU (as opposed to in the U.K.) even if starting in 2021?

That is, do you take it to mean that EU students would be eligible to apply as if UK/EU Nationals (as it currently is) were still a relevant category for fees and finance?

Also, when you say you may (allegedly) be eligible for funding based on the fact you received funding before, what does that exactly mean? Or is there any reference for that on SFE regulations for previous years?

Thank you!
Yes, SFE told me they would ask for 3 years residency in the EU (with pre-settled of course otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to stay in the UK and study). Everyone from SFE does seem to be saying something else, so just keep that in mind. It wasn't an official statement.

I'm not sure whether there'll be a category for EU nationals, that might vary from university to university. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that universities can set their own fees for EU students. Of course that still won't matter if pre-settled people are eligible for home fees.

The guy from SFE said he thinks I might be eligible because they look at the applications individually, there's not one rule for all. He said when I apply for finance for September 2021 when I start university, they can see that I've had funding before (which is the funding for Access to HE this year). He said that might help because they already have all the details etc so they might as well let me have funding for university. Not sure how that works or how they decide haha
I think he just meant that maybe if students have had funding before, they won't suddenly not give them funding anymore.

Hope this helps
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B999555
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(Original post by Daniekie)
Yes, SFE told me they would ask for 3 years residency in the EU (with pre-settled of course otherwise we wouldn't be allowed to stay in the UK and study). Everyone from SFE does seem to be saying something else, so just keep that in mind. It wasn't an official statement.

I'm not sure whether there'll be a category for EU nationals, that might vary from university to university. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that universities can set their own fees for EU students. Of course that still won't matter if pre-settled people are eligible for home fees.

The guy from SFE said he thinks I might be eligible because they look at the applications individually, there's not one rule for all. He said when I apply for finance for September 2021 when I start university, they can see that I've had funding before (which is the funding for Access to HE this year). He said that might help because they already have all the details etc so they might as well let me have funding for university. Not sure how that works or how they decide haha
I think he just meant that maybe if students have had funding before, they won't suddenly not give them funding anymore.

Hope this helps
Thank you!
Fingers crossed for us all
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intacto17
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From imperial college, as long as you are pre settled at least (not even settled required) you will get loan for fees and you fees will be at the HOME rate, so you will be fine guys
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B999555
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This is fantastic news — although I am not applying to Imperial, I imagine other unis will follow.Is there any source for this? I can’t see anything new on the website
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