Coronavirus: Disproportionate number of BAME people fined

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mgi
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When are the police going to sort themselves out and treat BAME people fairly?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...wHQlxu&ampcf=1
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Becca216
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(Original post by mgi)
When are the police going to sort themselves out and treat BAME people fairly?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...wHQlxu&ampcf=1
That is a million dollar question.....

The thing is all it takes is for a select few police officers to be racist and it just creates a whole system of injustice.....
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DiddyDec
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We need more data in order to come to a proper conclusion on this one. While the figures are shocking there needs to a review about the reasons behind the skew rather than simply going for the it must all be racism angle.

It is known that many in the BAME community have issues with authority likely due to disproportionate treatment they typically face. So it may be the case they are then more likely to not comply with an order to return home thus facing an increased chance of being fined. This is purely speculation which is why I think more research needs to be done before conclusions can be drawn.
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Dubsmash247
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Because White people aren't ones attending giant funerals, going to mosques etc...
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mgi
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(Original post by Dubsmash247)
Because White people aren't ones attending giant funerals, going to mosques etc...
or Bournemouth beaches or 250 miles to Durham? and testing their eyes in a 60 mile round in a car! I love the unbelievable racism thinking in your post. lol.
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mgi
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
We need more data in order to come to a proper conclusion on this one. While the figures are shocking there needs to a review about the reasons behind the skew rather than simply going for the it must all be racism angle.

It is known that many in the BAME community have issues with authority likely due to disproportionate treatment they typically face. So it may be the case they are then more likely to not comply with an order to return home thus facing an increased chance of being fined. This is purely speculation which is why I think more research needs to be done before conclusions can be drawn.
"is known that many in the BAME community have issues with authority likely due to disproportionate treatment they typically face" Issues with authority??? what? what disproportionate treatment? what do you mean? being discriminated againsr you mean!?
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by mgi)
"is known that many in the BAME community have issues with authority likely due to disproportionate treatment they typically face" Issues with authority??? what? what disproportionate treatment? what do you mean? being discriminated againsr you mean!?
Yes :facepalm2:
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
We need more data in order to come to a proper conclusion on this one. While the figures are shocking there needs to a review about the reasons behind the skew rather than simply going for the it must all be racism angle.

It is known that many in the BAME community have issues with authority likely due to disproportionate treatment they typically face. So it may be the case they are then more likely to not comply with an order to return home thus facing an increased chance of being fined. This is purely speculation which is why I think more research needs to be done before conclusions can be drawn.
Completely agree.

But according to the world of Mgi, everything is racist, everything in the world is based on racism, every thought, every dream! I absolutely love how it never crosses your mind that actually maybe they’ve been out and about more than they should have been... instead, it’s just racism. Thank god your bigoted views are the minority.
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Just my opinion
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Completely agree.

But according to the world of Mgi, everything is racist, everything in the world is based on racism, every thought, every dream! I absolutely love how it never crosses your mind that actually maybe they’ve been out and about more than they should have been... instead, it’s just racism. Thank god your bigoted views are the minority.
https://youtu.be/mWRqfsl9VPM
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Townsend419
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Somehow this is proof of discrimination but it's actually not. We've seen nothing but mosques open, Islamic funerals with 100+ funerals (didn't some Labour MP attend?) but ignore all that..



Also throwing everyone who isn't White into one group is pretty stupid tbh who thought that was a good idea?
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mgi
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Completely agree.

But according to the world of Mgi, everything is racist, everything in the world is based on racism, every thought, every dream! I absolutely love how it never crosses your mind that actually maybe they’ve been out and about more than they should have been... instead, it’s just racism. Thank god your bigoted views are the minority.
You know not what you say! lol. The key word here is "disproportionate " ! Figure that out.
And your analysis: "they’ve been out and about more than they should have been." ?? seriously 2 to 3 times more?! really. Did you not see those Bournemouth beach pictures of mainly white people then? Some were issued with parking fines but not fines for being " out and about" or breaching lock down rules.
Instead of wasting your time attacking me just look at the data, the facts and discard your racial bias!
I think you have become preoccupied with dishing out ineffective verbal abuse rather than delivering cogent referenced arguments!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-53176717
Last edited by mgi; 1 week ago
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JWatch
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(Original post by mgi)
"is known that many in the BAME community have issues with authority likely due to disproportionate treatment they typically face" Issues with authority??? what? what disproportionate treatment? what do you mean? being discriminated againsr you mean!?
mgi I'm a police officer and I've never seen any officers discriminate against black people. I'm not saying that there aren't any racists in the police at all because in an organization this big it's possible some slip through the net and aren't weeded out. I would say that is exceptionally rare though.

I've tried explaining to you before that the police can only deal with what's in front of them. If there are grounds to search (or in this case fine) 9 black people and 1 white person, then the police will search 9 black people and 1 white person. The reason why black people always seem to be disproportionately affected here is due to institutional racism, a term everyone knows and yet few properly understand. It refers to the fact that because there is racism in society, black people often have less prospects and come from worse off backgrounds than white people, and as a result are more likely to become involved in crime and subsequently get in trouble with the police. I've personally searched more black people than white people. But I wasn't discriminating against them, or targeting them because of their skin colour. I searched them because I had grounds to carry out a search.

Would you like police to search more white people, even if they have no grounds for that search, just to get the numbers more equal? Or not search black people even when there are grounds?
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04MR17
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Posting to subscribe
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Completely agree.

But according to the world of Mgi, everything is racist, everything in the world is based on racism, every thought, every dream! I absolutely love how it never crosses your mind that actually maybe they’ve been out and about more than they should have been... instead, it’s just racism. Thank god your bigoted views are the minority.
The police's handling of the new laws has exceptionally bad so it is possible that many fines could be in error.

"All 44 cases under the Act were found to have been incorrectly charged because there was no evidence they covered potentially infectious people, which is what this law is intended for."

Many forces were issuing incorrect advice based on guidance rather than law and some where even enforcing guidance rather than law. Some were even just making up laws.
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JWatch
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
The police's handling of the new laws has exceptionally bad so it is possible that many fines could be in error.

"All 44 cases under the Act were found to have been incorrectly charged because there was no evidence they covered potentially infectious people, which is what this law is intended for."

Many forces were issuing incorrect advice based on guidance rather than law and some where even enforcing guidance rather than law. Some were even just making up laws.
The legislation was so badly written, it was always going to be a nightmare to police. And now that shops have said they will call police rather than enforce coverings, it's going to create more workload. Stop being lazy arses and enforce it yourself, if someone doesn't wear one then they are refused service or refused entry altogether. Not difficult.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by JWatch)
The legislation was so badly written, it was always going to be a nightmare to police. And now that shops have said they will call police rather than enforce coverings, it's going to create more workload. Stop being lazy arses and enforce it yourself, if someone doesn't wear one then they are refused service or refused entry altogether. Not difficult.
Completely agree. And the thing I don’t understand in regards to the supermarkets that refuse to enforce it is that they have a duty of care to customers. They are not protecting their customers if they’re not enforcing it. I wonder how long before a lawsuit comes about because somebody caught it in a supermarket and the supermarket didn’t protect them.

This all aside, people should just do as they’re told.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by JWatch)
The legislation was so badly written, it was always going to be a nightmare to police. And now that shops have said they will call police rather than enforce coverings, it's going to create more workload. Stop being lazy arses and enforce it yourself, if someone doesn't wear one then they are refused service or refused entry altogether. Not difficult.
It was never that hard to understand, I have followed the legislation since day one and I could understand it without issue. The Act was for potentially infectious persons yet they were charging people with no evidence, some were even charged under laws not even for the country they were in. That is just incompetence.

Shops aren't reasonable for enforcing criminal law, that is a job for the police.
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mgi
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(Original post by JWatch)
mgi I'm a police officer and I've never seen any officers discriminate against black people. I'm not saying that there aren't any racists in the police at all because in an organization this big it's possible some slip through the net and aren't weeded out. I would say that is exceptionally rare though.

I've tried explaining to you before that the police can only deal with what's in front of them. If there are grounds to search (or in this case fine) 9 black people and 1 white person, then the police will search 9 black people and 1 white person. The reason why black people always seem to be disproportionately affected here is due to institutional racism, a term everyone knows and yet few properly understand. It refers to the fact that because there is racism in society, black people often have less prospects and come from worse off backgrounds than white people, and as a result are more likely to become involved in crime and subsequently get in trouble with the police. I've personally searched more black people than white people. But I wasn't discriminating against them, or targeting them because of their skin colour. I searched them because I had grounds to carry out a search.

Would you like police to search more white people, even if they have no grounds for that search, just to get the numbers more equal? Or not search black people even when there are grounds?
You said:" The reason why black people always seem to be disproportionately affected here is due to institutional racism, a term everyone knows and yet few properly understand" Well, that's a fact. But your understanding and definition of " institutional racism" is erroneous! Here is the definition: a definition of institutional racism was defined by Sir William Macpherson in the UK's Lawrence report (1999) as: "The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour that amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people." And a particular example he gave at the time was that of the Met Police! Nobody claimed that every police officer that investigated the murder of Stephen Lawrence was racist! Institutional racism arguments are not simply about a few rogue police officers behaving in a bad way and nor is it about you per se.
BAME especially black people are 9 times more likely to be subject to stop and search. This is way over the top!
I think the real problem for the police force is how to stop their own racial profiling of black people. They need to start listening to this longstanding complaint that is frequently made by members of the black community!
And no, despite what you claim, black people are not more "likely to be involved in crime". Most people, including black people, don't actually commmit crime at all. But when black people meet officers with your beliefs ,what will happen? you will assume things about them that you would not assume about poor white criminals. Do you see how this presents a problem for law abiding black people? That is the bit of institutional racism that you don't really understand- the subtle racial profiling of black people- an essential component of institutional racism!
I think all officers should go into regular diversity training that involves working on how to combat unconscious bias and figure out why black people don't buy the standard" i am fair, i am not racist" , i have grounds to search you" line that they hear!
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mgi
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Completely agree. And the thing I don’t understand in regards to the supermarkets that refuse to enforce it is that they have a duty of care to customers. They are not protecting their customers if they’re not enforcing it. I wonder how long before a lawsuit comes about because somebody caught it in a supermarket and the supermarket didn’t protect them.

This all aside, people should just do as they’re told.
Proving when and where a person caught Coronavirus is problematic to the extreme!
People "should just do as they’re told." Really? So whether one is being picked on or not then one should just do as one is told? i dont think so!.
And i notice that you dodged my point in a previous post about Bournemouth beach white people and the key word" disproportionate "' targeting!
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JWatch
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(Original post by mgi)
But when black people meet officers with your beliefs ,what will happen? you will assume things about them that you would not assume about poor white criminals. Do you see how this presents a problem for law abiding black people? That is the bit of institutional racism that you don't really understand- the subtle racial profiling of black people- an essential component of institutional racism!
I think all officers should go into regular diversity training that involves working on how to combat unconscious bias and figure out why black people don't buy the standard" i am fair, i am not racist" , i have grounds to search you" line that they hear!
We've covered this before and what it comes down to is this whether you think officers should search people when they have grounds, even if that leads to some being disproportionately searched in comparison.

Let's imagine a shift where I have grounds to search 9 black people and 1 white person. I'll search 9 black people and 1 white person. Those statistics will look bad, but those are the people who I had grounds to search. What would you like me to do instead? Find some other random white people to search even though I have absolutely no grounds to search them, just to "even the numbers"? Or should I refuse to search 8 of the black people I do have grounds to search?
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