Coronavirus: Disproportionate number of BAME people fined

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imlikeahermit
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#21
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#21
(Original post by mgi)
Proving when and where a person caught Coronavirus is problematic to the extreme!
People "should just do as they’re told." Really? So whether one is being picked on or not then one should just do as one is told? i dont think so!.
And i notice that you dodged my point in a previous post about Bournemouth beach white people and the key word" disproportionate "' targeting!
What is the issue with people simply doing as their told if it is by the police or the government? If the government asks me to wear a mask in shops, I’ll do that. If I do that, I will then not have a problem. If a policeman pulls me over, and asks me to step out of the car, I’ll do it. What is your problem with authority?
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mgi
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#22
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#22
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
What is the issue with people simply doing as their told if it is by the police or the government? If the government asks me to wear a mask in shops, I’ll do that. If I do that, I will then not have a problem. If a policeman pulls me over, and asks me to step out of the car, I’ll do it. What is your problem with authority?
what is your problem with my Bournemouth post and the word " DISPROPORTIONATE "? I tell you what the issue is hear: you cannot admit that racism exists within the police force
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epicnm
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
What is the issue with people simply doing as their told if it is by the police or the government? If the government asks me to wear a mask in shops, I’ll do that. If I do that, I will then not have a problem. If a policeman pulls me over, and asks me to step out of the car, I’ll do it. What is your problem with authority?
So is it only black people ignoring government advice for them to be disproportionately fined then? Because if I remember correctly, the raves in Leeds, huge gatherings at beaches, Liverpool celebrations all didn’t have majority-black participants


Spoiler:
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And protesting against being killed by law enforcement and systematic racial injustice is a bit different to getting a suntan or celebrating a goal in football
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mgi
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#24
(Original post by JWatch)
We've covered this before and what it comes down to is this whether you think officers should search people when they have grounds, even if that leads to some being disproportionately searched in comparison.

Let's imagine a shift where I have grounds to search 9 black people and 1 white person. I'll search 9 black people and 1 white person. Those statistics will look bad, but those are the people who I had grounds to search. What would you like me to do instead? Find some other random white people to search even though I have absolutely no grounds to search them, just to "even the numbers"? Or should I refuse to search 8 of the black people I do have grounds to search?
No. i would like you to honestly address the assumptions that you made about black people in one of your recent previous posts rather than simply defend your actions!
You completely ignored my responses about your and my understanding of ehat institutional racism actually means. You just simply repeated "your grounds to search" argument. But i will let you into a secret: the black community as a whole do not apparently trust police officers who reason the way that you do on these matters!
Address the points and solutions i offered in my previous recent posts to you.
I can see why there is distrust between the police and the law abiding majority in the black community! Why should they suffer more stop and search based on your profiling of them? How is that fair? You make no such claims , by the way, about white poverty disadvantaged people.
The police force has long been in need of yearly compulsory diversity training- something similar to what barrister Daniel Barnet has recently articulated.
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epicnm
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#25
(Original post by JWatch)
mgi I'm a police officer and I've never seen any officers discriminate against black people. I'm not saying that there aren't any racists in the police at all because in an organization this big it's possible some slip through the net and aren't weeded out. I would say that is exceptionally rare though.

I've tried explaining to you before that the police can only deal with what's in front of them. If there are grounds to search (or in this case fine) 9 black people and 1 white person, then the police will search 9 black people and 1 white person. The reason why black people always seem to be disproportionately affected here is due to institutional racism, a term everyone knows and yet few properly understand. It refers to the fact that because there is racism in society, black people often have less prospects and come from worse off backgrounds than white people, and as a result are more likely to become involved in crime and subsequently get in trouble with the police. I've personally searched more black people than white people. But I wasn't discriminating against them, or targeting them because of their skin colour. I searched them because I had grounds to carry out a search.

Would you like police to search more white people, even if they have no grounds for that search, just to get the numbers more equal? Or not search black people even when there are grounds?
Black people make up 3.5% of the UK population, admittedly more in certain areas of the UK, with London having the highest black population of 13.3%, but for you to search 9 black individuals and 1 white individual, it suggests that skin colour is ‘reasonable grounds’ to search. I can tell you now that it is not only black people committing crimes, but they are 40 times more likely to be searched compared to white people. I know black men who work in the NHS and are being searched by police officers more than 3 times a week. All it does is increases a communities distrust in the police.
I think you have ignored the institutional racism in the police force itself, along with your own admitted racial bias.
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Ascend
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#26
(Original post by epicnm)
I can tell you now that it is not only black people committing crimes, but they are 40 times more likely to be searched compared to white people.
You might be interested in the following thread:

Should police racial profiling be proportionate?

No one is suggesting that only black people commit crimes. The context is always about proportionality.
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mgi
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#27
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#27
(Original post by epicnm)
Black people make up 3.5% of the UK population, admittedly more in certain areas of the UK, with London having the highest black population of 13.3%, but for you to search 9 black individuals and 1 white individual, it suggests that skin colour is ‘reasonable grounds’ to search. I can tell you now that it is not only black people committing crimes, but they are 40 times more likely to be searched compared to white people. I know black men who work in the NHS and are being searched by police officers more than 3 times a week. All it does is increases a communities distrust in the police.
I think you have ignored the institutional racism in the police force itself, along with your own admitted racial bias.
Yes, absolutely spot on. His posts are very revealing. They would be a concern for many law abiding black people, especially in view of the fact that he is a police officer apparently.
Last edited by mgi; 1 week ago
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epicnm
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(Original post by Ascend)
You might be interested in the following thread:

Should police racial profiling be proportionate?

No one is suggesting that only black people commit crimes. The context is always about proportionality.
I’ve just read a few posts on the thread and it’s suggestions to search more Black people is not only nonsense but based on racist stereotypes that black people are criminals, including those who have never committed a crime or had any intention of committing a crime having to be harassed through the publicly embarrassing ordeal of being stopped and searched by police. If you want to increase the already growing distrust between police officers and in this case the black community, that’s the best way to go about doing it. And then where does it stop? Are all Muslims going to be searched further at airports for being terrorists, are all white students going to have their bags checked for weapons they may use to shoot schools or for Class A drugs given they’re ‘statistically more likely to use Class A drugs than any other ethnicity’? These are just enforcing racist stereotypes into society and engendering the belief to affected groups that their skin colour reduces them to criminal activity. I’ll repost this in the thread you have given aswell.
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mgi
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#29
(Original post by epicnm)
I’ve just read a few posts on the thread and it’s suggestions to search more Black people is not only nonsense but based on racist stereotypes that black people are criminals, including those who have never committed a crime or had any intention of committing a crime having to be harassed through the publicly embarrassing ordeal of being stopped and searched by police. If you want to increase the already growing distrust between police officers and in this case the black community, that’s the best way to go about doing it. And then where does it stop? Are all Muslims going to be searched further at airports for being terrorists, are all white students going to have their bags checked for weapons they may use to shoot schools or for Class A drugs given they’re ‘statistically more likely to use Class A drugs than any other ethnicity’? These are just enforcing racist stereotypes into society and engendering the belief to affected groups that their skin colour reduces them to criminal activity. I’ll repost this in the thread you have given aswell.
Yes. Well said.
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epicnm
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(Original post by mgi)
Yes, absolutely spot on. His posts are very revealing. They would be a concern for many law abiding black people, especially in view of the fact that he is a police officer apparently.
I am honestly concerned that a real police officer would firstly admit publicly to completely disproportionately searching black people and then see no issue with it.
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mgi
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#31
(Original post by epicnm)
I am honestly concerned that a real police officer would firstly admit publicly to completely disproportionately searching black people and then see no issue with it.
Yes. And the worrying thing is that he does not seem to get what i am saying. He genuinely sees no problem with black law abiding people being searched more than white law abiding people! I hope he can perhaps begin to see why there is widespread distrust of the police by the black community!
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epicnm
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(Original post by mgi)
Yes. And the worrying thing is that he does not seem to get what i am saying. He genuinely sees no problem with black law abiding people being searched more than white law abiding people! I hope he can perhaps begin to see why there is widespread distrust of the police by the black community!
Exactly!!
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nathan_nacu
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(Original post by Dubsmash247)
Because White people aren't ones attending giant funerals, going to mosques etc...
Did u see Bournemouth on bank holiday weekend?
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Napp
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(Original post by epicnm)
And protesting against being killed by law enforcement and systematic racial injustice is a bit different to getting a suntan or celebrating a goal in football
Hardly an excuse to be running around sneezing on people when, in particular the first, is simply not an issue in Britain.
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mgi
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#35
(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Did u see Bournemouth on bank holiday weekend?
of course he did. And i already asked him. He doesn't answer because his prejudice is clear.
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nathan_nacu
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#36
(Original post by JWatch)
mgi I'm a police officer and I've never seen any officers discriminate against black people. I'm not saying that there aren't any racists in the police at all because in an organization this big it's possible some slip through the net and aren't weeded out. I would say that is exceptionally rare though.

I've tried explaining to you before that the police can only deal with what's in front of them. If there are grounds to search (or in this case fine) 9 black people and 1 white person, then the police will search 9 black people and 1 white person. The reason why black people always seem to be disproportionately affected here is due to institutional racism, a term everyone knows and yet few properly understand. It refers to the fact that because there is racism in society, black people often have less prospects and come from worse off backgrounds than white people, and as a result are more likely to become involved in crime and subsequently get in trouble with the police. I've personally searched more black people than white people. But I wasn't discriminating against them, or targeting them because of their skin colour. I searched them because I had grounds to carry out a search.

Would you like police to search more white people, even if they have no grounds for that search, just to get the numbers more equal? Or not search black people even when there are grounds?
Your first paragraph is just Anecdotal + Appeal to Authority Fallacy. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s exceptionally rare.
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Nabu123
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The white people in this thread are dooooiiinnggg the mooooossssttt to say racist sh*t without sounding racist, but dont worry we see you
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Napp
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(Original post by epicnm)
I am honestly concerned that a real police officer would firstly admit publicly to completely disproportionately searching black people and then see no issue with it.
So you think policing should be done via a mathematical formula...? With no more than 3% of police interactions being allowed to involve black members of the public, 2.3 for Indian and so on?
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Napp
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(Original post by Nabu123)
The white people in this thread are dooooiiinnggg the mooooossssttt to say racist sh*t without sounding racist, but dont worry we see you
Are you threatening members on this thread? :lol:
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epicnm
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(Original post by Napp)
Hardly an excuse to be running around sneezing on people when, in particular the first, is simply not an issue in Britain.
I’m failing to understand where you got ‘sneezing on people’. And Britain has its own issues with police brutality - it was only a couple of weeks ago where an office from the Met was leaning on a black man’s neck in the same manner that had been done with George Floyd.
And what about Sean Rigg who was killed? The UK, although not on the same scale as the US, definitley has issues with police brutality.

(Original post by Napp)
So you think policing should be done via a mathematical formula...? With no more than 3% of police interactions being allowed to involve black members of the public, 2.3 for Indian and so on?
If you are searching 9 black people and 1 white person when black people make up 3% of the population, you are doing one of two things:
You are actively going out of your way to search black people
You are actively going out of your way to ignore the criminal activity of white people.
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