Coronavirus: Disproportionate number of BAME people fined

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mgi
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#81
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#81
(Original post by paul514)
They are capable everyone is!

The idea they do it on mass is laughable!

People need to tell people like you to grow up
You are still missing the point again. So are you telling people that being twice as likely to be penalty charged for corona is not a problem of racial profiling? or requires a better explanation than thoughtlessly talking about " mass discrimination ", whatever that means!
Your abusive responses just show that you are not thinking anything through in a mature way at all.
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paul514
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#82
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#82
(Original post by mgi)
You are still missing the point again. So are you telling people that being twice as likely to be penalty charged for corona is not a problem of racial profiling? or requires a better explanation than thoughtlessly talking about " mass discrimination ", whatever that means!
Your abusive responses just show that you are not thinking anything through in a mature way at all.
Twice as likely, ok make it 10 times as likely.

Stop breaking the law and you won’t be fined 😂

As for being rude to you, this isn’t the first time you are sat their moaning about this sort of thing, you are a race grifter.
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mgi
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#83
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#83
(Original post by paul514)
Twice as likely, ok make it 10 times as likely.

Stop breaking the law and you won’t be fined 😂

As for being rude to you, this isn’t the first time you are sat their moaning about this sort of thing, you are a race grifter.
better than being a racist or an apologist for racism!
Change one's skin colour and stop going out while black- that's the answer, right? . lol.
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paul514
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#84
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#84
(Original post by mgi)
better than being a racist or an apologist for racism!
Change one's skin colour and stop going out while black- that's the answer, right? . lol.
Typical reply.

Go out and don’t break the law, you can’t get fined unless you break the law 😂
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mgi
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#85
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#85
(Original post by paul514)
Typical reply.

Go out and don’t break the law, you can’t get fined unless you break the law 😂
That's the fictional flaw in your argument right there!
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nathan_nacu
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#86
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#86
(Original post by looloo2134)
Young white working class males are stop along with black lads all the time in my part of London when their walking around in hoodies. One 16 year old white lad was stop 3 times in one week the same as a black lad who live in the area. The white people in the area are mostly over 50 and people over 50 do not commit as much crime as people under 30.

In my sister area which on one of riches areas in the country the police have near stop any boys black/white because their almost no knife crime.
Have u heard of the term anecdotal fallacy?
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JWatch
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#87
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#87
(Original post by mgi)
You may feel insulted, but i notice that you simply repeat yourself.
You did not address the issue that i raised in my previous post to you. I am not convinced by your reasoning regarding obvious racisl profiling of black people. It simply does not fit in with data and the way that white people are treated compared to black people.
You simply never address the reason why you think that law abiding black people should put up with being searched far more often than white people. That is the point! Deal with that specific point and ask a few black police officers whether they agree with your reasoning
Forget feeling insulted! Its a common feeling amongst the black community as well I suspect.
And for the avoidance of any doubt, no one sane is suggesting that a knife weilding maniac of whatever race should not be immediately arrested!
I am not sure you understand how seriously black people take racial profiling. If a lot of officers think like you then that distrust will continue!
Stay on the particular points i raise, sir, and try not to deviate with extreme examples.
What's the point? I've already tried explaining to you that we don't racially profile people, nobody is stop searched because of their skin colour, but you just ignore that because it's not what you want to believe.
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Napp
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#88
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#88
(Original post by paul514)
Typical reply.

Go out and don’t break the law, you can’t get fined unless you break the law 😂
The irony was impressive in his reply there, calling others racist indeed :rofl:
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mgi
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#89
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#89
(Original post by JWatch)
What's the point? I've already tried explaining to you that we don't racially profile people, nobody is stop searched because of their skin colour, but you just ignore that because it's not what you want to believe.
Sounds like a cop out to me! Pardon the pun.
The point here is that you are clearly dodging the points I made in previous posts. You are clearly trying to justify what is called racial profiling. That, understandably, will most likely never be accepted by most people from black communities!
It is interesting that you claim to be a police officer and yet you are adamant that the police "don't racially profile people, nobody is stop searched because of their skin colour,.." Nobody? Why do you believe this? because of what reason? See the links below. https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019...ow-racial-bias
So you have never heard of Stephen Lawrence and the Macpherson report? of course you have, but you don't like or believe its conclusions.
But you have backed yourself into a defensive corner so you are now concentrating on me and what you "think i want to believe " - but that is not a cogent argument.
If you are a typical police officer then it is no surprise that the black community generally do not trust the police force.
You are deliberately not wanting to process what i have said very clearly in my posts because, as you have already stated, you are ok with racially profiling law abiding black people on account of the fact that black people and white'people commit crime. How does that make any sense?https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9556526.html
I seriously don't understand your viewpoint on these matters.
Another point: black police officers complain about racism in the police force!
Please stop telling people that we believe what we want to believe when we have legitimate concerns about policing and also the treatment of black police officers themselves! You don't want to believe the actual experiences of black people when they talk about racism. Perhaps its the wrong career for you?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-careers-black
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/artic...a-4fa4368ef839
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paul514
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#90
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#90
(Original post by Napp)
The irony was impressive in his reply there, calling others racist indeed :rofl:
Only a racist sees race in everything.
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mgi
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#91
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#91
(Original post by paul514)
Only a racist sees race in everything.
That does not make even the slightest bit of rational sense! And try not to oversuse the word "everything " without defining it!
Last edited by mgi; 6 days ago
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paul514
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#92
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#92
(Original post by mgi)
That does not make even the slightest bit of rational sense! And try not to oversuse the word "everything " without defining it!
It doesn’t make sense to you because “everything” is racist to you😂
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imlikeahermit
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#93
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#93
(Original post by mgi)
You just need to deal with facts not waste your time on dishing out ineffective slanderous abuse. What's with your racism? It's not a substitute for cogent argument. Black lives matter.
I wasn’t going to reply, but since I’m a bit bored...

The facts? The facts are this. You bleat on about everything being disproportionate...3% of the population are responsible for 18% of all homicides. 3% of the population are responsible for 10% of convictions. Half of all murder victims in London are black, as well as close to half of all murder suspects being black, despite only making up 13% of the population in London.

You want to talk disproportionate, see above. There is no racism here, just facts, which you refuse to accept.

Good day sir.
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paul514
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#94
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#94
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I wasn’t going to reply, but since I’m a bit bored...

The facts? The facts are this. You bleat on about everything being disproportionate...3% of the population are responsible for 18% of all homicides. 3% of the population are responsible for 10% of convictions. Half of all murder victims in London are black, as well as close to half of all murder suspects being black, despite only making up 13% of the population in London.

You want to talk disproportionate, see above. There is no racism here, just facts, which you refuse to accept.

Good day sir.
Its an even smaller section of the population if you just look at men under 40 as well
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epicnm
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#95
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#95
What some people on this thread are struggling to understand, presumably because they aren’t from a BAME background and have never faced, or will face this, in their life, (or choose to be ignorant) is that black people are discriminated against from being stopped and searched by police at disproportionate rates to then being four times as likely to have police use force against them. It is draining as an ethnic minority to be on the receiving end of discrimination because of your race, from the education system, with black people being three times as likely as white people to face suspension, to the legal system with black children twice as likely to be prosecuted for a crime than white people and Black men twice as likely to be remanded in custody compared to white people, to higher education where black applicants are 22 times more likely to have their university applications investigated, to healthcare with BAME people being between 10%-50% more likely to die from coronavirus and black women five times more likely to die during childbirth, to the job market, with black people having to send 80% more job applications in order to get 1 positive response from an employer compared to white people and black graduates having the lowest average income following graduation, to banking, with black victims of fraud twice as likely to be denied a refund by their bank and black-owned firms twice as likely to be rejected for a loan compared to white owned firms.

These aren’t anywhere near all the discrimination BME face, but what makes it worse is the failure by some people to recognise that systemic racism is very much alive and flourishing in the UK.


https://assets.publishing.service.go...e-cjs-2018.pdf
http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/...sresearch/Race
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.i...501.html%3famp
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...gland-47115305
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...discrimination
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...discrimination
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...-victims-fraud
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....ucation/latest
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JWatch
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#96
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#96
(Original post by epicnm)
What some people on this thread are struggling to understand, presumably because they aren’t from a BAME background and have never faced, or will face this, in their life, (or choose to be ignorant) is that black people are discriminated against from being stopped and searched by police at disproportionate rates to then being four times as likely to have police use force against them.
None of that is the fault of police though, as I've already explained. We don't search people based on their skin colour, we search people when we have reasonable grounds to suspect they have something illegal on them. Black people often come from poorer backgrounds and have less prospects because of racism ingrained in society (that is what institutional racism means) and as such are often more likely than white people to come to our attention and end up being searched. I accept that can't be nice for them, but in my view that points to a deeper problem with racism in society itself. I'm not sure what you want the police to do differently. Should we not search any black people even when we have grounds to?
Last edited by JWatch; 6 days ago
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epicnm
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#97
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#97
(Original post by JWatch)
None of that is the fault of police though, as I've already explained. We don't search people based on their skin colour, we search people when we have reasonable grounds to suspect they have something illegal on them. Black people often come from poorer backgrounds and have less prospects because of racism ingrained in society (that is what institutional racism means) and as such are often more likely than white people to come to our attention and end up being searched. I accept that can't be nice for them, but in my view that points to a deeper problem with racism in society itself. I'm not sure what you want the police to do differently. Should we not search any black people even when we have grounds to?
I said previously that the stop and search system is flawed and unfairly targets black men in particular, and that the vague description of a ‘black man in a hoodie’ is not reasonable grounds to stop every black man, especially if the same was for a ‘white man in a hoodie’, not every white man on the street would be stopped and searched. Not only this, but I have seen countless occasions of police officers who stop a black man who is in their car, and then after stopping them decide that they have found reasonable grounds to stop and search them. There is only one thing, other than a motor issue, which the police would have known prior to stopping them which was that they are a black male.

And you have suggested that other racism is to blame for the massively disproportionate treatment of black people, but what about black people being four times as likely to have police use force against them? Could you explain this, as is it based on racist stereotypes of black people being ‘threatening and aggressive’ that they need several police officers to hold them down, use additional restraint techniques or use policing methods against their training like keeping their knee on their neck, as seen with the latest (filmed) example of police brutality by a Met officer. You can’t deny the systematic racism in the police force itself and shift all the blame to societal racism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53407560
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04MR17
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#98
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#98
Please be respectful to other users when posting on TSR. Debate the point not the person, thank you.
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looloo2134
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#99
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#99
(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Have u heard of the term anecdotal fallacy?
In the area people under 30 are mainly black/mixed and around 30% white any youth worker will tell that white boys in hoodies are stop just as much. Because in the area it boys that commit violent crime of course most would never dream of doing any violent crime.

A lot of the young people in the area use very bad language and are out on the streets at four in the morning standing in large groups were are their parents.
Last edited by looloo2134; 6 days ago
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JWatch
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#100
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#100
(Original post by epicnm)
And you have suggested that other racism is to blame for the massively disproportionate treatment of black people, but what about black people being four times as likely to have police use force against them? Could you explain this, as is it based on racist stereotypes of black people being ‘threatening and aggressive’ that they need several police officers to hold them down, use additional restraint techniques or use policing methods against their training like keeping their knee on their neck, as seen with the latest (filmed) example of police brutality by a Met officer. You can’t deny the systematic racism in the police force itself and shift all the blame to societal racism.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53407560
No this is a common approach taken whenever someone is violent towards us, regardless of their skin colour. If there's several of us for example all grabbing and controlling a limb, it means we can more safely restrain that person, holding them in place to prevent them being able to attack us, but without actually harming them.

As for the second BIB I've already said several times that no officer should kneel on a suspects neck.
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