Whic is the best one to do Graduate officer or Non graduate officer? Watch

young ceasr
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why do people goes to university even though degree is not needed to become British Army officer?
Is it that a very good reasult is required to become Non graduate officer?

what is the percent of graduate and non graduate army in British army?
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GR29KHS
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Depends on the person - whether they want a degree and a university experience or not. Also with a degree starting pay is much higher and promotion up to Captain is quicker. Also I was biffed out of Cranwell and luckily had a degree to fall back on, people might want that safety net just incase a military career doesn't work out. I'm sure more people will give other suggestions.
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TKnightrider
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Also post army, a degree is very useful for a civilian career.
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History Rocks
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Graduate Officer has the best opportunities during there careeer in the Military and once they decide to leave the Armed Forces to enter a civilian profession as well. This is because;

1: You are not 'throwing all your eggs in one basket' and once you have a degree you are able to open yourself up to many other careers.-Afterall life after the Armed Forces need just as much thought and consideration as life in the Forces.

2: You will get much more pay; Non-Graduate Officer Cadets earn £14,349 a year while training. Graduate Officer Cadets earn £22,680 a year during training.-Massive differance.

3: Like gr29khs said you will be able to climb the ranks quicker with a degree than without a degree.-Which then leads to a pay rise quicker. After all higher ranks' salaries range from £35,000 up to £89,000 a year.
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Wzz
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Also, as is mentioned fairly frequently here, joining at 21/22 with a degree behind you and a few years of independent living works absolute wonders for you. In terms of maturity, life experience and independence you'll be streets ahead of where you were when you left school and are likely to impress a lot more.
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Schleigg
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The alternate (from a DEs perspective) if you join straight from school and you mate goes to uni:

You pass out from Officer Training and get a tour under your belt before he joins. After he grads, passes out and gets posted 4 years down the line you will have been promoted. Another few years down the line you will both be level-pegging aged roughly 24/25, the graduate advantage ends at the top of the JO bracket. The only difference is that you will have more military experience and he's been playing catch up with you.

The only time you will really notice being a non-grad is during training when you are being paid less than everyone else and you see your mates getting promoted ahead of you.

I prefer to compare myself with people of similiar age to myself as opposed to other guys from my intake, everything suddenly makes more sense.
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Lady Venom
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I did a degree for the sake of having a degree - not because I really wanted to do it. Have you ever tried job hunting without a degree? It sucks. More doors are opened with a degree and even more so with a 2:1. For example, I looked at investment banking - no specific degree area is required however a 2:1 is. So.... there you go. If you join the Armed Forces and have to leave for one reason or another, it's nice to know that to get a decent job you don't suddenly have to go and be a mature student and remember how to write essays. Yes you can do Open University through the Forces, but I can't honestly say that many people have the time, particularly with today's operational tempo.

IIRC you can do a Masters during staff course later on in your Armed Forces career (correct me TPD/Wzz)

The higher pay band is to cover paying off that student loan as it is assumed that majority of non-grads have no (serious) debt. It all works out in the end, it just depends what you want out of life and whether you are prepared to gamble not having a degree........
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flugelr
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In answer to one of the original questions, about 85% of Sandhurst graduates have a Degree of some sort.

I am planning to go in without a degree. The reasons are as follows:

1). There isn't really a subject I want to spend 3 years and 18k studying.
2). I wish to spend as much time as a field officer as possible. Due to the fact that I start a few years before the graduates I am likly to be spending a good year or two extra in the field before moving into an administrative role.
3). The money is not a concern of mine.

By the way, I am joining the Infantry.
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djmm
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(Original post by Lady Venom)
IIRC you can do a Masters during staff course later on in your Armed Forces career (correct me TPD/Wzz)
Appreciate I;'m neither TPOD/ Wzz, but you can d oyour post-grad at anytime during your career....

DJMM=
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Lady Venom
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(Original post by djmm)
Appreciate I;'m neither TPOD/ Wzz, but you can d oyour post-grad at anytime during your career....

DJMM=
Yeh but what I meant is the work you do during your staff course can be accounted for a masters in something military I thought....?
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NFI
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"your military career is just a big long resettlement course for civvy street"

Which is true I suppose.
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Wzz
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(Original post by Schleigg)
You pass out from Officer Training and get a tour under your belt before he joins. After he grads, passes out and gets posted 4 years down the line you will have been promoted. Another few years down the line you will both be level-pegging aged roughly 24/25, the graduate advantage ends at the top of the JO bracket. The only difference is that you will have more military experience and he's been playing catch up with you.
A bit of a simplistic way to look at the argument.

The experience you'll gain in one extra tour is fairly moot, as you're not competing for promotion until you're already a Flt Lt/Lt/Cpt. Certainly in my service, aircrew excepted, the tours you go through as an A/Plt Off, Plt Off or Fg Off are considered almost probationary in a lot of branches.

As a non-grad DE, you'll have 2 or maybe 3 short ones depending on your branch, while as a graduate you'll get one Fg Off tour before you both settle in to your first Flt Lt job. Once the first Flt Lt OJAR comes in, you're in competition with other Flt Lts for promotion, and it's highly unlikely that they'll look at something you did as an A/Plt Off to "lift" you above another Flt Lt; it's relevant, recent experience that counts.

Yes, you'll have an extra 3-4 years of time actually in the service, but on the other hand the graduate has 3-odd years of wider experience rather than having done nothing but military service. The advantage this gives your average graduate, and the maturity they often bring with them, has been done to death. They did their growing up at university, you're doing it on your first one or 2 tours.

So bearing all that in mind, I'd say it's exceptionally naive to say that a graduate will be "playing catch up" at any point. They'll have had the same training as you, but probably just one less tour to find their feet, because they're a little older and more mature and often more capable. Do you think an 18-24 month tour as (say) a Stn Adjt somewhere is equivalent to 3 years at university in terms of life skills etc?

(Original post by Schleigg)
The only time you will really notice being a non-grad is during training when you are being paid less than everyone else and you see your mates getting promoted ahead of you.
... unless you're a direct from school DE, in which case you'll probably notice that the graduates are a lot more mature, and cope much better with numerous elements of the course. It was noticeable on my IOT that there were some young DEs who had literally never lived away from home before, weren't as comfortable with the living arrangements, and weren't as good at time management.

Not all were like that, but there were definitely a few.
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Wzz
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(Original post by flugelr)
I am planning to go in without a degree. The reasons are as follows:

1). There isn't really a subject I want to spend 3 years and 18k studying.
Is there really, honestly nothing in today's incredible spread of subjects, from advanced theoretical physics down through videogames design to surfing studies, that you think could hold your attention for a handful of years?

When someone says that to me, I think the problem is generally that they've padlocked the idea of becoming an Army officer and gone "yes, this is what I want" rather than considering alternatives.

Remember that with suitable sponsorship and a sensible attitude, a degree can cost a lot less than the figure you mention too.

(Original post by flugelr)
2). I wish to spend as much time as a field officer as possible. Due to the fact that I start a few years before the graduates I am likly to be spending a good year or two extra in the field before moving into an administrative role.
Perhaps slightly naive as well. What you want out of your career will change as you grow up, mature, get married, start a family etc, so be careful of making decisions like this.

When I first applied to join the RAF (aged 17), I looked at my age on leaving university, and my planned IPP, and realised that after training I might only have time for 4 or so tours. Suddenly I was worried that I wouldn't have time for 3 front line tours, a display job, a ground tour when my first kid was young, a tour in the Red Arrows, and an instructional tour in PTC.

What I've since realised is that it's an exceptionally intense job, and generally, people don't want to do back to back tours in the same job, unless it's for family or lifestyle reasons.

In short, you'll find that a full time tour as an infantry officer will probably allow you to tick all the boxes you want to, and will work you exceptionally hard, mentally and physically. You may not want to go straight back into another one!

(Original post by flugelr)
3). The money is not a concern of mine.
It should be. You can argue for hours and hours about who's better off in the long run between grads and non-grads, and it's irrelevant because each case is different.

It's nice to see you're terribly driven and plenty of people do very well with that sort of attitude, but I'd be careful about writing off a degree so quickly, when you'll probably never have another time in your life where it's as easy to get one.

I'm glad I did one. After x years of schooling, I didn't want to go immediately into a career which would then mean working until I was 55 or 60 with no break. A gap year didn't really offer much, I thought, so a degree was perfect; especially as it conferred so many advantages.
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Wzz
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(Original post by Lady Venom)
Yeh but what I meant is the work you do during your staff course can be accounted for a masters in something military I thought....?
Virtually everything in training can be counted towards something. Scribblies, for example, can count their phase 2 and subsequent training towards a degree. Aircrew can claim flying courses as OU credits if they're involved in the in-service degree scheme.

What you're probably thinking of are courses like ICSC, which all counted towards the award of things from the ILM and the suchlike rather than a specific degree. There's a big shakeup of junior officer development going on in the RAF right now (no more ISS for a start), so it wouldn't surprise me to see more accreditation being introduced.

If you're very keen on some very hard work, you can go and do the year-long Aerosystems Course, which results in the award of an MSc.
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Schleigg
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@Wzz,

I agree with your points and I think they match mine with different wording - mine was more aimed at the two friend who are the same age but join through different routes.

With regards to your point about promotion after Flt Lt: I'm not saying that tours spent as an APO/ Plt Off would help on your OJAR. I'm saying that surely someone who has been in for 5/6 years would have a better idea of what is required than someone who was promoted to Flt Lt 7 months after graduating from Cranwell?
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GR29KHS
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After going through the resettlement process and meeting a lot of people who are leaving the armed forces without degrees I think it's worth it. Many of these people are considering going to university so that they can get the jobs they really want (and are probably more than capable of doing). A lot of jobs now call for a degree and companies won't always waiver the requirement for one if you happen to be very experienced in your chosen proffession. I would have potentially really struggled without mine. The job I've been offered is a graduate job in civvy street, but the bank employing me will waiver that requirement for people who have been in the armed forces. They believe that the experience/people skills etc are worth a degree. However, being young, I suspect my degree might have gone a long way to helping me get that job.

I firmly believe that if you get into the military without one, it is worthwhile considering an OU course while you're in. But you may not have the time to do it....
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flugelr
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(Original post by Wzz)
Is there really, honestly nothing in today's incredible spread of subjects, from advanced theoretical physics down through videogames design to surfing studies, that you think could hold your attention for a handful of years?

When someone says that to me, I think the problem is generally that they've padlocked the idea of becoming an Army officer and gone "yes, this is what I want" rather than considering alternatives.

Remember that with suitable sponsorship and a sensible attitude, a degree can cost a lot less than the figure you mention too.
The only one is military history. I regularly check UCAS to see if there are any subject I would enjoy doing at that level.

I may, as I have said, enjoy doing military history, or a history degree but taking military history modules. However, I like history as a pass-time, something to do when I am bored. I don't want to pursue a career in it or spend all day studying it.

I will continue to look at getting a degree, however, at the moment I am leaning towards not getting one.

(Original post by Wzz)
Perhaps slightly naive as well. What you want out of your career will change as you grow up, mature, get married, start a family etc, so be careful of making decisions like this.

When I first applied to join the RAF (aged 17), I looked at my age on leaving university, and my planned IPP, and realised that after training I might only have time for 4 or so tours. Suddenly I was worried that I wouldn't have time for 3 front line tours, a display job, a ground tour when my first kid was young, a tour in the Red Arrows, and an instructional tour in PTC.

What I've since realised is that it's an exceptionally intense job, and generally, people don't want to do back to back tours in the same job, unless it's for family or lifestyle reasons.

In short, you'll find that a full time tour as an infantry officer will probably allow you to tick all the boxes you want to, and will work you exceptionally hard, mentally and physically. You may not want to go straight back into another one!
I know that as I get older I won't want to be running about as a platoon commander, however, I don't want to be in what is effectively a desk job at only 24 or so.

Considering I have a career until 45-55 years of age, I want to spend at least the first 5 years being active (1 year at Sandhurst and another 4 as a 2Lt/Lt).

(Original post by Wzz)
It should be.
Why? If I wanted a career to get money I wouldn't join the forces. Yes, I may in the future want to get married, have kids etc, but I don't really care about getting vast wads of cash.

(Original post by Wzz)
It should be. You can argue for hours and hours about who's better off in the long run between grads and non-grads, and it's irrelevant because each case is different.

It's nice to see you're terribly driven and plenty of people do very well with that sort of attitude, but I'd be careful about writing off a degree so quickly, when you'll probably never have another time in your life where it's as easy to get one.

I'm glad I did one. After x years of schooling, I didn't want to go immediately into a career which would then mean working until I was 55 or 60 with no break. A gap year didn't really offer much, I thought, so a degree was perfect; especially as it conferred so many advantages.
Fair enough.

As I wrote earlier, I am still open to the option of a degree, I am, however, leaning way from it at this moment in time.
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Wzz
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(Original post by flugelr)
I may, as I have said, enjoy doing military history, or a history degree but taking military history modules. However, I like history as a pass-time, something to do when I am bored. I don't want to pursue a career in it or spend all day studying it.
It worries me a bit that the only thing you'll immediately consider is military history. Remember, the armed forces all want well rounded characters with a wide range of interests. You're selling yourself as a bit of a one-trick pony if you're only interested in military affairs.

While I wouldn't recommend a degree to people who have made up their mind so firmly, you might find you enjoy a degree if history's a hobby of yours. You'd be able to look at a lot of it in more depth than you could personally, and it'll help flesh out your CV a little, broaden your horizons, and help make you more of the ideal well-rounded type the forces like.

You don't want to be one of these people who went straight into the ACF at 14, reads nothing but military books, then went straight to AOSB. A bit of focus is good, but what are you going to talk to people in the mess about?

(Original post by flugelr)
I know that as I get older I won't want to be running about as a platoon commander, however, I don't want to be in what is effectively a desk job at only 24 or so.
You don't want that now, but after 4 years of constant rotations to and from sandy places, you may well want a break (like pretty much everyone else in the military!). Like I said in my last post, it's natural at this age to think you need to pack lots into a military career. Why don't you think that a full front line tour will tick all the necessary boxes and leave you wanting a change? It does for a lot of people.

(Original post by flugelr)
Considering I have a career until 45-55 years of age, I want to spend at least the first 5 years being active (1 year at Sandhurst and another 4 as a 2Lt/Lt).
Wouldn't the same career path work for a graduate though? 1 year at Sandhurst followed by 3, maybe 4 in further training and front line jobs as a platoon commander?

If you do serve until 45, you'll find that 24 years service plus a degree seems awfully similar to 27 years service. There's not a lot in it! Plus, it's an extra string to your bow if you do leave before full retirement age.
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young ceasr
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thanx for the replies!!!!!! mate
i appriciate
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Zippo
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If you have the financial backing and the academic gift, I’d say go to university.
When I was of school age the last thing I wanted to do was to stay on for even more. I regret that decision now. Not because I haven’t done well without the degree, far from it, I’m going to have to take a pay cut by going the commissioned route. But after working with so many graduates, I appreciate the experiences they gained at uni and I must say I’m fairly envious.
I can’t reverse that decision now. I wish I could. Uni does seem like a chapter in ones life that is there to be experienced.
Best of luck
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