What can doctors do that ANPs (with prescribing rights) cannot?

Watch
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#1
Do they do the same thing?
0
reply
LeapingLucy
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#2
Report 2 weeks ago
#2
No, when I worked at a GP surgery, they had very different roles.

The ANPs' role was far more limited than the GPs' - in too many ways to list.

The ANPs dealt with minor illnesses, like coughs/colds, minor skin complaints like impetigo/warts etc. They would also monitor patients with chronic conditions like asthma, through yearly check-ups. But they didn't deal with anything more serious than that.
1
reply
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#3
The ANPs in our SAU ward can do anything up to reg level..
0
reply
LeapingLucy
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#4
Report 2 weeks ago
#4
Maybe it’s different for practice nurses and hospital nurses?
0
reply
Anonymous #1
#5
Report 2 weeks ago
#5
What ANPs do very much dependon on where they are working I have worked in paediatric units where some ANPs were on the reg rota and could do anything a reg could do. However, they were limited to their specialty (neonates or paeds) and could not cross cover, whereas the paeds trainees were able to work in both specialties due to their training being more broad.

In adult medicine, the ANPs I have worked with have had very different roles in different places and whilst they had highly specialist knowledge in some areas (e.g on neurosurgery, they ran baclofen clinics and were trained in giving intrathecal injections - a highly specialist skill), they could not do something as simple as read an ECG because it was not their area of expertise.

So to answer your question, doctors' training provides them with a much broader base of knowledge and skills, whereas ANPs have a great depth of knowledge and skills in their area of expertise but they do not have aba of knowledge.
0
reply
Anonymous #1
#6
Report 2 weeks ago
#6
(Original post by Anonymous)
What ANPs do very much dependon on where they are working I have worked in paediatric units where some ANPs were on the reg rota and could do anything a reg could do. However, they were limited to their specialty (neonates or paeds) and could not cross cover, whereas the paeds trainees were able to work in both specialties due to their training being more broad.

In adult medicine, the ANPs I have worked with have had very different roles in different places and whilst they had highly specialist knowledge in some areas (e.g on neurosurgery, they ran baclofen clinics and were trained in giving intrathecal injections - a highly specialist skill), they could not do something as simple as read an ECG because it was not their area of expertise.

So to answer your question, doctors' training provides them with a much broader base of knowledge and skills, whereas ANPs have a great depth of knowledge and skills in their area of expertise but they do not have aba of knowledge.
*do not have the breadth of knowledge
0
reply
LeapingLucy
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#7
Report 2 weeks ago
#7
Yes, but their role was limited to:
- For asthma: discussing with the patient whether they feel their asthma is under control, reviewing their inhalers/meds
- For diabetes: discussing blood results with patient, advising on lifestyle

If there were any particularly worrying developments, these would be passed to a GP.

Additionally, their role here was solely in annual monitoring - they wouldn’t ever diagnose these conditions.

It’s absolutely vital work, and it saves the GPs huge amounts of time, freeing up more GP appointments - so I’m not knocking it in any way.

I’m just pointing out that, at least in general practice, ANPs definitely do not do ‘basically the same things as doctors.’
Last edited by LeapingLucy; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#8
Report 2 weeks ago
#8
(Original post by Anonymous)
In adult medicine, the ANPs I have worked with have had very different roles in different places and whilst they had highly specialist knowledge in some areas (e.g on neurosurgery, they ran baclofen clinics and were trained in giving intrathecal injections - a highly specialist skill), they could not do something as simple as read an ECG because it was not their area of expertise.
That's because reading an ECG isn't "simple"

You can train an ANP or non-doctor staff member to complete a procedure or follow a protocol - no argument there.

You can't train them to think outside the box or apply first principles which they haven't ever been taught (and expecting this is obviously unfair). This is what 5+ years of medical school and many years of postgraduate training and exams are for.

This spiel about "doing anything a reg can" is a reductionist fantasy.
0
reply
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#9
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#9
(Original post by Democracy)
That's because reading an ECG isn't "simple"

You can train an ANP or non-doctor staff member to complete a procedure or follow a protocol - no argument there.

You can't train them to think outside the box or apply first principles which they haven't ever been taught (and expecting this is obviously unfair). This is what 5+ years of medical school and many years of postgraduate training and exams are for.

This spiel about "doing anything a reg can" is a reductionist fantasy.
To be honest, I have been on the surgery wards for a few weeks now and they basically run the ward. The juniors discuss patients with them, they can also clerk, prescribe everything in the BNF, request investigations etc. I really enjoy having them around because they are keener to teach than the Juniors or Reg lol
0
reply
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#10
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#10
They even disagreed with a plan for a patient written by the reg and basically just ignored it. It was hilarious, and the consultant agreed with them!!
0
reply
LeapingLucy
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 2 weeks ago
#11
There were 3 ANPs at this practice - they all did asthma, two of them did diabetes, one did a COPD clinic and I think one did a CHD clinic. Also, one of them did regular visits to all of the practice’s assigned care homes.


They didn’t deal with mental health at all. That was solely the reserve of GPs.

I don’t know exactly how much training they received, but the check up consultations were very formulaic - they followed a pre-prepared template on the computer system, telling them what questions to ask, to record B.P,, weight, height, BMI etc.
Last edited by LeapingLucy; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
Anonymous #1
#12
Report 2 weeks ago
#12
(Original post by Democracy)
That's because reading an ECG isn't "simple"

You can train an ANP or non-doctor staff member to complete a procedure or follow a protocol - no argument there.

You can't train them to think outside the box or apply first principles which they haven't ever been taught (and expecting this is obviously unfair). This is what 5+ years of medical school and many years of postgraduate training and exams are for.

This spiel about "doing anything a reg can" is a reductionist fantasy.
I dunno, the ANPs on the senior rota I worked with on paeds were pretty damn good (and better than some of the regs). And those ones could interpret ECGs, and X-rays and so on.
0
reply
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#13
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#13
I have no issues with them but just was amazed to know they could work up to reg level!
0
reply
ecolier
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#14
Report 2 weeks ago
#14
(Original post by wildstar9)
I have no issues with them but just was amazed to know they could work up to reg level!
Only on the wards though right? They don't actually operate.

So in many ways, like a physician associate who can also work in a surgical ward or clinic but again do not operate. They do the medical side of surgical patient management.
0
reply
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#15
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#15
(Original post by ecolier)
Only on the wards though right? They don't actually operate.

So in many ways, like a physician associate who can also work in a surgical ward or clinic but again do not operate. They do the medical side of surgical patient management.
Some are surgical first assistants so they can get involved lol
0
reply
ecolier
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#16
Report 2 weeks ago
#16
(Original post by wildstar9)
Some are surgical first assistants so they can get involved lol
But they will never be in charge of the operation. The registrars can be, if it's done out of hours.

I mean technically any one can be involved, even nursing students or ODPs or junior medical students if all they have to do is hold the retractors or do exactly as the surgeon-in-charge tells them to do.
Last edited by ecolier; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
wildstar9
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#17
Report Thread starter 2 weeks ago
#17
(Original post by ecolier)
But they will never be in charge of the operation. The registrars can be, if it's done out of hours.
That is true but on the other hand, I'm sure in a medical specialty they literally mirror the tasks of a Reg?
0
reply
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#18
Report 2 weeks ago
#18
(Original post by wildstar9)
Some are surgical first assistants so they can get involved lol
And by get involved, you mean "hold retractors". A surgical registrar clearly does way more than this when they're alone covering surgery.

The point of being a registrar is that you're learning to be a consultant. An ANP who's not doing this is not "working at reg level". They may be more confident and more experienced than a particular junior doctor at that point in time (possibly due to departmental reasons and not being shunted around every six months), but they are not de facto as competent as all registrars in that specialty. If they're at all sensible they'll be the first to point this out.
0
reply
Democracy
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#19
Report 2 weeks ago
#19
(Original post by wildstar9)
That is true but on the other hand, I'm sure in a medical specialty they literally mirror the tasks of a Reg?
Mate are you high lol? Have you seen what a med reg does at night?
0
reply
ecolier
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#20
Report 2 weeks ago
#20
(Original post by wildstar9)
That is true but on the other hand, I'm sure in a medical specialty they literally mirror the tasks of a Reg?
Not really. There are plenty of things a medical reg will do.

e.g. in Neurology I would see headache, Parkinson's Disease, epilepsy, MS and decide the treatment for all. I also authorise tertiary / quarternary investigations e.g. paranodal antibodies to be sent to Oxford neuro-immunology after an MDT discussion with the Walton Centre. I doubt the ANPs can do that.

Same for other medical specialties, and especially for general medical on-calls. There is no way any ANP can replace a medical reg anytime soon.


(Original post by wildstar9)
Do they do the same thing?
Back to your original questions, there is a lot of things that a doctor can do that the ANP cannot. For a start they would never be in charge of a patient - e.g. receive GP referrals, and decide whether an operation is required or whether it is appropriate.

They will also most likely be working under a consultant rather than leading the team.

Plus, while they can get involved in management they would probably never lead the surgical department or be head of that specialty, for example.

And of course, the pay will always be much lower compared to a specialist consultant surgeon; and I also doubt that there is much private practise opportunities.
Last edited by ecolier; 2 weeks ago
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How do you feel about your grades? Are they...

What I expected (180)
24.69%
Better than expected (147)
20.16%
Worse than expected (402)
55.14%

Watched Threads

View All