Anon. Ymous
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What do you guys think of Africa and africans in general, what's the first thing that comes into your mind when being asked about Africa
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Fascnioerasi
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The live action lion king opening scene
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JOSH4598
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Two words really: Poverty and Conflict.

They're the two main sources of problems in Africa, in my opinion anyway.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
Two words really: Poverty and Conflict.

They're the two main sources of problems in Africa, in my opinion anyway.
I've just been reading Factfullness by Hans Rosling. The data shows that where as war and poverty are still and issue Africa has gone through a revolution in the last 30 years with many millions of people now receiving healthcare, education and running clean water. They even have the internet!!!

Sadly though, our image of Africa is still based in the main on those harrowing images of Ethiopia (which is now a prosperous country) by Michael Burke back in 1982.
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JOSH4598
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I've just been reading Factfullness by Hans Rosling. The data shows that where as war and poverty are still and issue Africa has gone through a revolution in the last 30 years with many millions of people now receiving healthcare, education and running clean water. They even have the internet!!!

Sadly though, our image of Africa is still based in the main on those harrowing images of Ethiopia (which is now a prosperous country) by Michael Burke back in 1982.
Absolutely - Africa has come a long way in the past two decades! However it still has a lot further to go in terms of development before it's on par with other continents.
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Ascend
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Quoting this here since the other thread is closed:

(Original post by epicnm)
had Britain not exploited Africa, the 72% average income gap between Africa and the rest of the world would not exist today
Can you explain how you got to such a conclusion? I'm especially interested in the pre-colonial -> colonial -> post-colonial patterns here, and how it's different to other colonised (and exploited) regions whose development after independence has been significantly better than Africa's.
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Napp
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A continent prone to violence, not much more to be said. Bar some beautiful wildlife.
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Napp
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(Original post by Ascend)
Quoting this here since the other thread is closed:



Can you explain how you got to such a conclusion? I'm especially interested in the pre-colonial -> colonial -> post-colonial patterns here, and how it's different to other colonised (and exploited) regions whose development after independence has been significantly better than Africa's.
It is interesting seeing people unilaterally blame colonialism for all of Africas woes. They tend to politely forget that other former imperial possession are some of the richest (Australia, Singapore etc.) and most powerful (America) countries in the world. Not to mention the whos who of other well to do countries that have popped out such as NZL, Malaysia, Indonesia, HK (sort of), formerly South Africa and so on so forth.
Perhaps they should start looking at factors other than 'colonialism did it'.
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Ascend
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(Original post by Napp)
It is interesting seeing people unilaterally blame colonialism for all of Africas woes. They tend to politely forget that other former imperial possession are some of the richest (Australia, Singapore etc.) and most powerful (America) countries in the world. Not to mention the whos who of other well to do countries that have popped out such as NZL, Malaysia, Indonesia, HK (sort of), formerly South Africa and so on so forth.
Perhaps they should start looking at factors other than 'colonialism did it'.
And not just any colonialism but specifically the very narrow window of 18-20th century European colonialism, conveniently ignoring the fact that modern humans have been colonising the world, each other and other hominids since at least our first migration out of Africa (likely killing off Neanderthals in the process).

Ironically, these postcolonial theories are themselves predicated on the very Western "exceptionalism" the theorists deride, where ideas such as the sovereign nation state, universal rights and liberty have done more to combat colonialism than at any other point in recorded history.
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Napp
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(Original post by Ascend)
And not just any colonialism but specifically the very narrow window of 18-20th century European colonialism, conveniently ignoring the fact that modern humans have been colonising the world, each other and other hominids since at least our first migration out of Africa (likely killing off Neanderthals in the process).

Ironically, these postcolonial theories are themselves predicated on the very Western "exceptionalism" the theorists deride, where ideas such as the sovereign nation state, universal rights and liberty have done more to combat colonialism than at any other point in recorded history.
The irony can be quite breathtaking, not to mention the historical myopia. It's almost as if they're searching for a reason to shift the blame for the current issues, either that or blindingly ignorant of global history - both being equally troubling reasons.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by JOSH4598)
Absolutely - Africa has come a long way in the past two decades! However it still has a lot further to go in terms of development before it's on par with other continents.
Agreed. But if you think in 1800 we were in the same place as Africa was 30 years ago, they are smashing development out of the park!
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Napp
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Agreed. But if you think in 1800 we were in the same place as Africa was 30 years ago, they are smashing development out of the park!
Doesnt it rather depend on the metric you're using?
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Napp)
Doesnt it rather depend on the metric you're using?
Take your pick?
Daily income, childhood mortality, use of the pill, years in education, access to healthcare, access to clean water, access to the internet, number of births per woman etc etc etc.

All rapidly improving. There are a few blips like Somalia and Central African Republic, and of course within each country is a spread but as a whole things are improving rapidly.

Do they know its Christmas? Of course they do. Most can read because they went to school and about half have access to the internet!
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Napp
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Take your pick?
Daily income, childhood mortality, use of the pill, years in education, access to healthcare, access to clean water, access to the internet, number of births per woman etc etc etc.

All rapidly improving. There are a few blips like Somalia and Central African Republic, and of course within each country is a spread but as a whole things are improving rapidly.

Do they know its Christmas? Of course they do. Most can read because they went to school and about half have access to the internet!
Well i was more going on a basis of industrialization but fair enough. Although given most of your list didnt exactly exist in any meaningful form (or at all) back then..
Indeed they are.
I'm not sure what the comment on Christmas is meant to achieve though??
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Napp)
Well i was more going on a basis of industrialization but fair enough. Although given most of your list didnt exactly exist in any meaningful form (or at all) back then..
Indeed they are.
I'm not sure what the comment on Christmas is meant to achieve though??
Oh sorry. Every year we play "Do they know its Christmas" whilst thinking of those poor poor African children, not realising that most African children go to school.

As for the data - I dunno. We're pretty good at recording births and deaths. And there are enough financial records around to know how much people were being paid 200 years ago. Sure, they aren't on a database but you can fill in the gaps to know that about 85% of the population were earning the equivalent of $1 a day. People in fact were so poor they had to send their kids to work. A bit like Africa did 30 years ago when you saw pictures of kids carrying water or working the fields.
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Napp
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Oh sorry. Every year we play "Do they know its Christmas" whilst thinking of those poor poor African children, not realising that most African children go to school.

As for the data - I dunno. We're pretty good at recording births and deaths. And there are enough financial records around to know how much people were being paid 200 years ago. Sure, they aren't on a database but you can fill in the gaps to know that about 85% of the population were earning the equivalent of $1 a day. People in fact were so poor they had to send their kids to work. A bit like Africa did 30 years ago when you saw pictures of kids carrying water or working the fields.
Still not entirely sure what point your angling at there. I assume something as hilarious as you're trying to paint me as saying Africans are not but living in the stoneage or?
As to the second paragraph, again, not sure why you're going off on a random rant?
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Nabu123
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(Original post by Napp)
A continent prone to violence, not much more to be said. Bar some beautiful wildlife.
I never new someone could have such a childish view when discussing the most linguistically and ethnically diverse continent on the planet
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looloo2134
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I've just been reading Factfullness by Hans Rosling. The data shows that where as war and poverty are still and issue Africa has gone through a revolution in the last 30 years with many millions of people now receiving healthcare, education and running clean water. They even have the internet!!!

Sadly though, our image of Africa is still based in the main on those harrowing images of Ethiopia (which is now a prosperous country) by Michael Burke back in 1982.
Ethiopia has always has a high reading rate in the cities areas it has it own written language Church and synagogues that are thousand of years old the government spend the wealth. That main reason behind the faming was greed also Christmas in Ethiopia is in March.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Take your pick?
Daily income, childhood mortality, use of the pill, years in education, access to healthcare, access to clean water, access to the internet, number of births per woman etc etc etc.

All rapidly improving. There are a few blips like Somalia and Central African Republic, and of course within each country is a spread but as a whole things are improving rapidly.

Do they know its Christmas? Of course they do. Most can read because they went to school and about half have access to the internet!
Christmas in Ethiopia is in March it has its own Church.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by Ascend)
And not just any colonialism but specifically the very narrow window of 18-20th century European colonialism, conveniently ignoring the fact that modern humans have been colonising the world, each other and other hominids since at least our first migration out of Africa (likely killing off Neanderthals in the process).

Ironically, these postcolonial theories are themselves predicated on the very Western "exceptionalism" the theorists deride, where ideas such as the sovereign nation state, universal rights and liberty have done more to combat colonialism than at any other point in recorded history.
Neanderthals did not dies out they inbred with modern humans outside Africa have about 5% to 10% Neanderthal DNA. Also Neanderthals had been around longer than modern humans.
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