Furlough should be scrapped immediately

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Quady
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#21
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#21
(Original post by TheStupidMoon)

Why are they being sacked instead of their jobs being put on hold? Don't we have a benefits system?
A few reasons I guess...
1) If you have a contract with an employer for say £50k a year for 40hrs a week the employer can't rip up a contract without the employee agreeing. They'd have to make them redundant unless the employee agreed that leave of absence.
2) The benefit system wouldn't be able to cope with 5m+ applicants in a fortnight.
3) Benefit entitlemate is pretty crummy for people who agree a period of leave with their employer.
4) As a result of the above two things different more complex emergency legislation and implementation would have been needed to smooth the process. Which would have taken time.
5) The government didn't wish to lose the votes of millions of people who would get impovrised.
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paul514
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(Original post by monkeybest)
Furlough is essentially Welfare Version 2 and should be scrapped immediately. Rather than paying people to sit at home which they dont do anyways why not get the same people to pick fruit or clean hotel rooms rather than importing millions of foreigners to do this work?

The furlough junkies love it they go to the beach and pub everyday with their welfare gang members and its in their interest not to social distance not to wear a mask etc so they can get Sunak to give them even more furlough money for doing f all in their daily lives.

No other western country has gone down the furlough route, rather than breeding a new generation of shysters with it get them take another job that is available rather than giving them money to sit on a beach all day or when they are bored going to a pub instead.
Listen dummy I’m as far from left wing as it gets around here. The point of furlough is to not crash the economy. This isn’t a market correction recession it’s a real life phenomenon.
Personally I would have stopped all foreign travel when it spread to Italy, and gone down the Swedish model however they didn’t and this is how you keep an economy going in the medium term.
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paul514
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(Original post by monkeybest)
Get a grip knucklehead why do we have 3 million eastern europeans doing jobs lazy shyster Brits wont do? Why are we still importing labour from Europe while at the same time putting shyster Brits onto furlough to join their welfare gang members at the beach doing f all the day apart from spreading you know what.

Any wonder cases on rise again? Paying people to do f all is always a bad idea as all they do is cause trouble or smoke/drink and binge watch netflix all day. Furlough should be scrapped force these shysters to clean hotel rooms and pick fruit rather than giving them taxpayers cash to sit on a beach all day. Same goes for the welfare gang also.
Yea we have 3 million Europeans here because of free movement not because we have purposefully imported them to do our jobs. You’re a bit of a clown really aren’t you?
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paul514
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(Original post by Quady)
A few reasons I guess...
1) If you have a contract with an employer for say £50k a year for 40hrs a week the employer can't rip up a contract without the employee agreeing. They'd have to make them redundant unless the employee agreed that leave of absence.
2) The benefit system wouldn't be able to cope with 5m+ applicants in a fortnight.
3) Benefit entitlemate is pretty crummy for people who agree a period of leave with their employer.
4) As a result of the above two things different more complex emergency legislation and implementation would have been needed to smooth the process. Which would have taken time.
5) The government didn't wish to lose the votes of millions of people who would get impovrised.
This person clearly can’t see the amount of defaults on debts and mortgages that would happen which would then cause a financial crash on top of harming a recovery by a consumer economy having consumers with no money.
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DJKL
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(Original post by paul514)
This person clearly can’t see the amount of defaults on debts and mortgages that would happen which would then cause a financial crash on top of harming a recovery by a consumer economy having consumers with no money.
The catch is I am not sure furlough will cure any issues but more just partially kick the can down the road/spread the job losses out (flatten the peak so to speak).

Whilst there have been a fair few announcements in the retail/leisure sector from larger companies re job losses the job loss momentum within smaller entities will imho increase massively as furlough winds out.

We are already getting a big increase in instructions to market for lease commercial property units that have already lost their tenants, there are, imho, a much larger number still to come, the smaller business generally having more of a tendency to try to trade out of problems to the bitter end before finally succumbing to the inevitable.

The real damage is going to become very apparent when the various subsidy schemes are removed and then we will launch straight into the end of transition with the EU on 31st December which is certainly not going to help.

I am still convinced we will have unemployment at over 4 million by December 2021 (Likely now circa 2 million) unless somehow they extend EU transition (not convinced they will) and consider extending some forms of business support through to next year.( Maybe but not sure that HMG have the will to keep spending)
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LaPregunta
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If Her Majesty's government wishes to stop people from workin, then their losses ought to be remunerated.
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monkeybest
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#27
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#27
(Original post by paul514)
Yea we have 3 million Europeans here because of free movement not because we have purposefully imported them to do our jobs. You’re a bit of a clown really aren’t you?
Why have we imported 3 million from Europe to do work lazy shyster Brits on welfare can easily do? Even now furlough is creating a second tier of lazy shysterness so get these lazy sods picking fruit and cleaning hotel rooms rather than CONTinuing to import labour from overseas.

Estimate says that well over half the UK population are dependent on welfare that is shocking. No wonder the Sky CEO said the welfare gang make up for a large proportion of their income. Look at the amount of satellite dishes on council estates its like a default fitting! Sure netflix feels the same if they did an analysis.

Scrap furlough gets the lazy millions back to work rather than crowding beaches and pubs up and down the country spreading the virus.
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paul514
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(Original post by monkeybest)
You're the clown numpty brain why have we imported 3 million from Europe to do work lazy shyster Brits on welfare can easily do? Even now furlough is creating a second tier of lazy shysterness so get these lazy sods picking fruit and cleaning hotel rooms rather than CONTinuing to import labour from overseas.

Estimate says that well over half the UK population are dependent on welfare that is shocking. No wonder the Sky CEO said the welfare gang make up for a large proportion of their income. Look at the amount of satellite dishes on council estates its like a default fitting! Sure netflix feels the same if they did an analysis.

Scrap furlough gets the lazy millions back to work rather than crowding beaches and pubs up and down the country spreading the virus.
You think we have purposefully imported people, it’s called free movement they come of their own accord, something that changes in January /facepalm
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04MR17
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Please be respectful of other users when posting on TSR. Debate the point, rather than the person.

Thank you.
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TheStupidMoon
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(Original post by Napp)
A mixture of borrowing and printing if memory serves.
Printing money usually means a devalued currency and borrowing has to be paid back.
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Napp
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(Original post by TheStupidMoon)
Printing money usually means a devalued currency and borrowing has to be paid back.
Can do, doesnt always. Either way, some would happily contend to a devalued currency is a good thing, it making exporting easier.
Indeed it does, then again given the government at present is practically being paid to borrow money its not much of an issue.

I'm still not sure how you think this is a worse outcome than having half the workforce simply sacked and dumped on the dole though?
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TheStupidMoon
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(Original post by Quady)
A few reasons I guess...
1) If you have a contract with an employer for say £50k a year for 40hrs a week the employer can't rip up a contract without the employee agreeing. They'd have to make them redundant unless the employee agreed that leave of absence.
2) The benefit system wouldn't be able to cope with 5m+ applicants in a fortnight.
3) Benefit entitlemate is pretty crummy for people who agree a period of leave with their employer.
4) As a result of the above two things different more complex emergency legislation and implementation would have been needed to smooth the process. Which would have taken time.
5) The government didn't wish to lose the votes of millions of people who would get impovrised.
1. no work then no pay
2. then how did we manage the free money furlough
3. same for everyone
4. thats what the civil service is for.
5. we're stuck with them for another 5 years

If people can't work then rentseekers can't collect.
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monkeybest
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(Original post by TheStupidMoon)
Printing money usually means a devalued currency and borrowing has to be paid back.
Problem is the welfare gang think money grows on trees as they have never earned a penny in their life so its about time they were reminded to earn their keep for once and are reminded the tax payer funds their alcohol, sky and netflix. Following that the rug should be pulled out from under them stat
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Akash1234567)
I believe we should have gone down the route of:
- Capital Gains Tax cut.
- Corporation tax break for 6 months.
- Income tax cut.
- Quantitative easing
The government have rolled out tax breaks to companies across the board, they don't have to pay various taxes for a long period to come, although admittedly they will still owe them.

QE is back on the agenda as well, it is apparently being actively discussed as an urgent option in the Treasury. The main effect of QE after the financial crash of 2008 was to boost equities and house prices and enrich the already rich at the expense of younger people, renters and people without pensions and money market funds. The banks basically lent the money to rich people playing the markets.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by monkeybest)
Problem is the welfare gang think money grows on trees as they have never earned a penny in their life so its about time they were reminded to earn their keep for once and are reminded the tax payer funds their alcohol, sky and netflix. Following that the rug should be pulled out from under them stat
It is going to be soon, but when it does, unemployment is going to skyrocket. It's already surging with the furlough in place.
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Quady
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(Original post by TheStupidMoon)
1. no work then no pay
2. then how did we manage the free money furlough
3. same for everyone
4. thats what the civil service is for.
5. we're stuck with them for another 5 years

If people can't work then rentseekers can't collect.
1) aye, like pensioners?
2) Not though the benefit system, through employers paying them. Technically HMRC have just pumped money into employers.
3) Not really, if you take a sabbatical to take a gap yar then that's a bit different to your job being made illegal to perform.
4) Yup, which is why they came up with this.
5) Folks memory is somewhat longer than that.

Yeah, you make that sound like a good thing.
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Quady
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The government have rolled out tax breaks to companies across the board, they don't have to pay various taxes for a long period to come, although admittedly they will still owe them.

QE is back on the agenda as well, it is apparently being actively discussed as an urgent option in the Treasury. The main effect of QE after the financial crash of 2008 was to boost equities and house prices and enrich the already rich at the expense of younger people, renters and people without pensions and money market funds. The banks basically lent the money to rich people playing the markets.
Did you miss the £300bn QE announced this year?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789
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Stiff Little Fingers
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Ah yes, we're on the verge of an unprecedented homelessness crisis and mass unemployment when the furlough scheme ends, obviously the solution was just to do all that months earlier...

You want an actual solution? It's a living wage with a jobs guarantee/UBI for those who can't work, and strict rent controls to avoid leeches bleeding the money away from people, plus very high wealth taxes on the ultra rich. You want to save the economy? Tackle those who are a net drain on it by their hoarding (the billionaires) and give more money to the poor, who can't hoard and have to spend but need the security to spend on anything other than essentials.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Quady)
Did you miss the £300bn QE announced this year?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15198789
No - they are planning a much bigger one apparently.

Oh and by the way most of this is just buying government bonds, eg, they are printing money to fund the deficit. It is inflationary but dubious as to it being expansionary.
Last edited by Fullofsurprises; 1 month ago
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monkeybest
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(Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
Ah yes, we're on the verge of an unprecedented homelessness crisis and mass unemployment when the furlough scheme ends, obviously the solution was just to do all that months earlier...

You want an actual solution? It's a living wage with a jobs guarantee/UBI for those who can't work, and strict rent controls to avoid leeches bleeding the money away from people, plus very high wealth taxes on the ultra rich. You want to save the economy? Tackle those who are a net drain on it by their hoarding (the billionaires) and give more money to the poor, who can't hoard and have to spend but need the security to spend on anything other than essentials.
Rubbish top 1% in this country make up about 23% of the tax take, the rich will just move away to another country then instead of 23% you get nothing! Its people like you that want to nullify any incentive to work hard and get on in life. Its the idle millions that are a drain on society what about them?

Rather than attacking those that work why not deal with the millions of lazy festering scrounging leeches that have infested this country for decades bleeding the country dry year on year. Scrap welfare and furlough and get these lazy sods who have never worked a day in their life and all their lazy mini chavs they bang out for benefit back to work now, plenty of jobs cleaning hotel rooms and picking fruit.

Give people a choice, take those jobs or starve? A benefit cap of 23k tax free you having a laugh make it 0K and you could probably cut income tax to the bare minimum.
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