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McCain vs. Obama

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Bismarck
8% of Brits are not white, so it's really not that much different to 12% of Americans being black. So where are all your non-white leaders? Who's the highest non-white elected official in Britain?


Non - white means a mixture of lots of small ethnic minorities; you can't group all ethnic minorities into one big group and expect them to all have the same interests.

I have no Idea - I used to live in a constituency with a black MP who was also a cabinet minister.

To be honest politics in this country at the moment is a bit of a joke.
naivesincerity
He said 8% non-white-there's a difference.


Precisely my point...
Master Polhem
Precisely my point...


Great minds think alike I believe - oh and naivesincerity :wink:
History Lost in Physics
Great minds think alike I believe - oh and naivesincerity :wink:


Indeed :smile:
If they elect Obama they're sexist and if they elect McCain they're racist. Either way they're stuck with someone who sucks, and you can call them bigots to boot. But Sarah Palin says "nucular," and I'm sick of that ****. I'd be disappointed if they elected her.

Damn, having to choose between McCain and Obama isn't something to be jealous of. Unless you happen to live in the UK.
Bismarck
You have 8% blacks, southeast and south Asians. Why aren't any of them in high elected positions?


Because we don't have positive discrimination.
burningnun
If they elect Obama they're sexist and if they elect McCain they're racist. Either way they're stuck with someone who sucks, and you can call them bigots to boot. But Sarah Palin says "nucular," and I'm sick of that ****. I'd be disappointed if they elected her.

Damn, having to choose between McCain and Obama isn't something to be jealous of. Unless you happen to live in the UK.


I know which one I'd pick. The one who can employ sensible foreign policy and restore respect for America. Not having hick-like social attitudes is also good. (Well maybe not McCain but Palin)
Bismarck
We don't have positive discrimination in politics.


No, but if you have it earlier in life then it boosts peoples confidence and career. If Condi Rice got into whatever great school coming from nothing by PD, she got a confidence boost from it, plus a better education than she would have done otherwise.
And PD can also tie in with the way that voters deal with their issues.
Bismarck
You have 8% blacks, southeast and south Asians. Why aren't any of them in high elected positions?


We have a meritocratic approach to politics. But if you are so worried about ethnic minorities in Britain, the second highest police officer is an 'ethnic'. We even have Muslim rear-admiral.
Bismarck
You have 8% blacks, southeast and south Asians. Why aren't any of them in high elected positions?



So how exactly does a Brit complain about the lack of minority representation in the US when you don't even have a single non-white in any real elected position of authority while we have a black candidate running for president?


Because asians are split into at least 5 main groups all with different interests, blacks are split into hundreds of groups (there's a big difference between blacks from families who have been here for generations and blacks who have just immigrated as refugees for example). And by the way a cabinet minister is an elected position of authority.
Bismarck
That makes no sense. Why would she get a confidence boost from being told that blacks need lower standards to get into college? Not that she needed.



By that you mean the one who's promising to scrap trade agreements with much of Latin America and Asia? I'm sure that will go over well. :rolleyes:


Because if she gets into whatever great school, she'll think it's on merit. She'll think the PD is just. Not everyone shares you and I's view of PD.

No, the one who's willing to engage in diplomacy in sensitive situations and engage with wider opinion, rather than taking a gung-ho and inflammatory approach.

Anyway, that's trade/economic policy right? Under a separate header to foreign policy.
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Yusuf.T
15
i dont think my view of america will change.. ill be kinda pissed if Grandpa and his toygirl got elected but it wont change what i think of them as a nation.
naivesincerity
I know which one I'd pick. The one who can employ sensible foreign policy and restore respect for America. Not having hick-like social attitudes is also good. (Well maybe not McCain but Palin)

I haven't been blown away by either of them being sensible, and I don't see why their policy would reflect that. Electing Obama could restore a little international respect, for sure. But that might be irreparable for a country that re-elected Bush, and besides, respect from countries Americans don't even know exist is completely intangible. They don't care what I think, and I don't really care what they think. At risk of being mean, I don't care about a bunch of people I don't know dieing either, because I'll survive (although if I don't, I'll care even less). But I don't want the word "nucular" coming out of my TV. I really, really don't.

My "not caring" method may make me seem like a typical apathetic teenager, but really it's to stop me getting depressed that either John McCain or Barack Obama is going to be leader of the Free World.
Bismarck




By that you mean the one who's promising to scrap trade agreements with much of Latin America and Asia? I'm sure that will go over well. :rolleyes:


At least he's heard of those places though.:smile:
Bismarck
That makes no sense. Why would she get a confidence boost from being told that blacks need lower standards to get into college? Not that she needed.



By that you mean the one who's promising to scrap trade agreements with much of Latin America and Asia? I'm sure that will go over well. :rolleyes:


We're a member of the EU - we have to change our outlook to trade to fit in with what other member states are doing. Blame the French if you really want to blame someone.
Bismarck
Are you suggesting that Obama got where he is today for anything other than his merit? And I asked about an elected position, since we're talking about the attitude of the people. And if you're going to go for unelected position, I think a secretary of defense, chief of the military, and chief national security advisor are slightly higher positions than a rear-admiral.



And McCain has spent several decades visiting them as part of the US government.


Again if a Muslim person came around and could wield the Ark Royal like Nelson could the Victory then, yes, he would most certainly be promoted to first sea lord. That has not happened. There is particular anti-British sentiment among many British Muslims today. But that is for another thread.

As for elected positions there are a few ethnic minority MPs in the house of commons. But they do not represent a majority by far and thus there are not more of them there. There wont be anymore because Westminster has somehow (I say somehow because this government is ridiculously PC) not indulged in positive discrimination.

No I am not at all suggesting that about Obama, finally. But you will have to understand that there is a very different Zeitgeist in Britain towards immigrants as opposed to America.
Bismarck
I.E. Britain is xenophobic. Which makes it all the more ironic that someone would accuse America of racism.


One could argue that xenophobia is morally better than racism, it being based on cultural rather than genetic factors.
Bismarck
Hard to call a country racist when a black candidate has a realistic shot of becoming president. I'd like to see a non-white leader of any major party in Britain.


This has turned into a debate about which country is more gutless in facing positive discrimination. Great. Well here is one for you we have the BPA: Black Police Officers Association - they're not a party but they are a serious group.
Bismarck
Hard to call a country racist when a black candidate has a realistic shot of becoming president. I'd like to see a non-white leader of any major party in Britain.


It's a different climate here though. I mentioned how it ties in with the PD thing. I think America has had worse race relations than us in the past, and nowadays you are seeing more compensatory support for blacks because of guilt.

(Also, isn't the US much more than 12% black?)
Bismarck
Hard to call a country racist when a black candidate has a realistic shot of becoming president. I'd like to see a non-white leader of any major party in Britain.

I'd like to see a woman us president.

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