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to become a teacher, no matter the age being taught, you HAVE to have a degree so...
and university is not just to give us skills specific to work, but to develop our academic skills, critical thinking etc. Apart from teaching, there are lots of jobs which are not STEM which would not even consider an applicant if they did not have a degree. Travel is great, and I want to do it but a degree is also a part of my life which I want for myself, so I can undertake a degree I am passionate and excited about.
But I do think that it shouldn't be automatic or expected to go to uni when lots of other great options exist
Original post by Mr T 999
Stats show stem grads do better in employment prospects and have higher lifetime earnings than non-stem subjects.

I believe everyone is misunderstanding the OP post. If you read the first line of the OP post she mentions it may not be for everybody. In the 5th paragraph she mentions people should travel from 2021 (where hopefully it should be back to normal-ish) to gain perspective of the world and how different systems work, learn about different cultures and find your true propose in life.

I believe the post is aimed at those who unsure about life and their future prospects. Instead of rushing to do a degree and making an un-informed decision, it's best if you take a gap year to figure out what it is you want before making such a commitment.


Still, no need to undermine the feelings of those people choosing to go to uni for non STEM degrees. OP makes valid points, just doesn’t have the nicest attitude when expressing them :smile:
Original post by TheWannabeFarmer
They're not wrong though. Studying some twaddle like history of art may be interesting but as contribution to the economy/society goes there isn't one


I’m not disagreeing. I am clearly stating that OP was rude towards those of us going to uni for non STEM degrees. Not all of us want to travel and not all of us want to study STEM. And thats okay. There was absolutely no need to call degrees “pointless”.
Hmmm in a global pandemic travelling sounds like the best idea. Think ill stick with uni.
not reading that love x
Original post by conorellis42
That is definitely a lie. Universities teach critical thinking to undergraduate students. so I'm not sure where you get this 'conform academically' narrative from.

You seem quite bitter, maybe you couldn't get into university to begin with so envy may play a part in exposing your lack of understanding on the matter. Either way, not our problem.

Universities I got into:
- University of Manchester
- University of Glasgow
- Queen Mary, University of London
- University of Bristol
- University of Newcastle
- University of Goldsmiths
- City, University of London

I applied twice and withdrew my application twice. Universities teach "critical thinking skills" to you and everybody else. You are all studying the same course and there is something referred to as a mark scheme. Universities were wonderful 20 years ago if what you sought in life was stability. This is because universities effectively teach you how to be of use to a potential employer. This is what is referred to by "transferable" skills. The problem with that whole concept is that because of the potentially long-lasting economic crisis, there is no such thing as stability anymore and so the entire system of university = good future collapses, making it void. You have a university degree, Paul has a university degree, Mary has a university degree, Harry has a university degree, Ruth has a university degree and none of you can be distinguished from each other because we have no idea of internships/PT jobs will be available in the next coming years. If Ruth has a university degree in development studies from Leeds and has no experience but Mary has spent 4 years intimately working with the rebuilding of Corona-hit towns in Honduras and Brazil - who do you genuinely think will get the job? At university, you are graded on how effectively you manage to conform to the current academic standard (which is why 30% of all graduates get a first). You are taught how to fit in so you can be useful working for somebody else. So no, you are not taught how to critically reflect upon the world around you and really analyze it. Or more significantly, how to actually think for yourself. The only way to truly get that skill is to explore the world around you.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Lshort17
Hmmm in a global pandemic travelling sounds like the best idea. Think ill stick with uni.

I literally specified that you should wait until things have cooled down.
Original post by TheProphetsPath
not reading that love x

nobody is forcing you x
Original post by angelinahx
I literally specified that you should wait until things have cooled down.


Sorry but it was too much to read haha, i must have skipped that part.
Original post by Lshort17
Sorry but it was too much to read haha, i must have skipped that part.

that's your choice x
I'd be wondering if students that are too inexperienced and immature to proceed directly to uni are also too inexperienced and immature to take a gap year...

We still need fruit serfs right?, and those train tracks won't weed themselves.
Original post by artful_lounger
Well gee, are you gonna pay for my travels? Because the government sure ain't!

Maybe you could make some advice that is actually relevant to more people than those who are economically privileged enough to choose whether to go "travelling" for an indeterminate amount of time instead of either being in full time employment or education - because the latter options are normally the only ones available to people who live in the real world.

I have been around the continent twice and my mother lives in council housing. I moved to the UK alone at 16 to explore a new culture and I'm a mixed race working class girl from Sweden. If you live at home for 6 months and learn the art of saving money, you could easily take a year out to travel South America and South East Asia. There are free volunteer projects posted every single day in every single country which either pay you directly or provide you with food and shelter. You could go work in Australia for a year and make more money than you could living at home in Sunderland. You can get both life experience and job experience doing those things and they will make you stand out on an application form which in this economy, is vital.
Original post by TheWannabeFarmer
They're not wrong though. Studying some twaddle like history of art may be interesting but as contribution to the economy/society goes there isn't one


Seriously? How many politicans make the same mistake over and over again for want of a historical context?

And without art we would all live in Soviet style flats and houses, there would be no cinema and TV would simply be a series of new infomercials.

Nothing like a bit of ignorance to inform a debate.
Original post by StriderHort
I'd be wondering if students that are too inexperienced and immature to proceed directly to uni are also too inexperienced and immature to take a gap year...

We still need fruit serfs right?, and those train tracks won't weed themselves.

No, because you can make mistakes when you're young whilst on a gap year and not have it be detrimental to your future. I don't understand this whole British obsession with going to uni as soon as possible. In Scandinavia, most people go to university in their mid-20s because we spend time volunteering, travelling to Australia, backpacking, getting real work experience or doing other pursuits which is literally making our country wealthier and better. You'd only go to university if you are absolutely sure you need a degree for your specific job and the only way to get it is through uni. You aren't considered wise enough at 18 to make hard decisions regarding your future (brain is fully developed at 25) so you aren't forced to either. University will still be there when the financial crisis is over and when you're done living your best life in your 20s.
Original post by ByEeek
Seriously? How many politicans make the same mistake over and over again for want of a historical context?

And without art we would all live in Soviet style flats and houses, there would be no cinema and TV would simply be a series of new infomercials.

Nothing like a bit of ignorance to inform a debate.

You don't need to go to university to learn either of those things and some of the best artists never went to university. The prime minister of my country never went to university.
Original post by 2_versions
You're looking at an extreme, there's plenty of non-STEM degrees which are useful. Art History might not be, same with many subjects - and exists mostly for cultural preservation, but to say economics, law, business etc aren't useful because they're jobs you can get without the degree is ridiculous. The academic and practical world of business / econ and law are completely different, and knowing both makes you more valuable to businesses - it increases your range of thinking. You will be a better problem solver with practical AND academic knowledge than you would be if you're just practically smart. Stem or not.


Are you aware most people don't use what they learned on their degrees once they have gotten a job in their field? The majority of these law, business, finance, accounting jobs require you to take professional qualifications, that you could do without doing a degree and be professionally qualified and capable of doing the job.

Degrees are nothing more than entry to a job. Employers advertise for degrees as a way to filter out candidates and it makes the company look good if they have X grads from X Russel group unis working for them. Most of these professional services jobs don't require a degree they are semi-skilled jobs not highly skilled jobs. These professional services jobs you learn on the job how to do your job and follow the company training program where they teach you.

Degrees become irrelevant once you have gotten a job and built experience for yourself, employers care more about experiences than your degree at that point.
Original post by ellabella_t
to become a teacher, no matter the age being taught, you HAVE to have a degree so...
and university is not just to give us skills specific to work, but to develop our academic skills, critical thinking etc. Apart from teaching, there are lots of jobs which are not STEM which would not even consider an applicant if they did not have a degree. Travel is great, and I want to do it but a degree is also a part of my life which I want for myself, so I can undertake a degree I am passionate and excited about.

absolutely! if you want to be a teacher pursue your dream and go to uni, 100%!
my post was mostly directed at a lot of young people i know who go to university because they're told to by their sixth forms, who don't really know what they want to do or who simply choose a humanities degree at random without having a specific plan behind it. i also have a feeling - and a lot of people in this thread go to uni because they falsely believe it's a gateway into financial stability which unfortunately, has stopped being the case.
Original post by Mr T 999
Are you aware most people don't use what they learned on their degrees once they have gotten a job in their field? The majority of these law, business, finance, accounting jobs require you to take professional qualifications, that you could do without doing a degree and be professionally qualified and capable of doing the job.

Degrees are nothing more than entry to a job. Employers advertise for degrees as a way to filter out candidates and it makes the company look good if they have X grads from X Russel group unis working for them. Most of these professional services jobs don't require a degree they are semi-skilled jobs not highly skilled jobs. These professional services jobs you learn on the job how to do your job and follow the company training program where they teach you.

Degrees become irrelevant once you have gotten a job and built experience for yourself, employers care more about experiences than your degree at that point.

right, it's called employ-ability. And it's a good thing :biggrin:
Original post by angelinahx
No, because you can make mistakes when you're young whilst on a gap year and not have it be detrimental to your future. I don't understand this whole British obsession with going to uni as soon as possible. In Scandinavia, most people go to university in their mid-20s because we spend time volunteering, travelling to Australia, backpacking, getting real work experience or doing other pursuits which is literally making our country wealthier and better. You'd only go to university if you are absolutely sure you need a degree for your specific job and the only way to get it is through uni. You aren't considered wise enough at 18 to make hard decisions regarding your future (brain is fully developed at 25) so you aren't forced to either. University will still be there when the financial crisis is over and when you're done living your best life in your 20s.


I don't really dispute that, but I'm thinking of the sort of immaturity that leads to students staying in their room for a solid year eating store brand doritos while watching fetish vids disgusting their famliiy and friends. Or in another way, too immature to use opportunities.

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