alice544
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(Original post by looloo2134)
They also need to socialize and be able to exercise.
Yes true. I think a tory response would probably be the unemployed are obviously just feckless and lazy animals who serve only to ****, eat and sleep.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Quite. No doubt caused by the huge cost of children in the UK and women choosing to give birth when older or deciding to pursue their career. The tabloid t scrounger is in a minority of 1 or two extreme families and even in the Daily Mail you won't get the full story.
There is the Bogeyman an unemployed gentleman with criminal record out their who just going around having babies with unemployed ladies.
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L i b
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(Original post by alice544)
Yes true. I think a tory response would probably be the unemployed are obviously just feckless and lazy animals who serve only to ****, eat and sleep.
Tedious rubbish. Long-term worklessness under any welfare system is not just about financial impoverishment, it correlates with virtually every negative outcome you care to mention: mental health, physical health, sense of self-worth, confidence, ability to re-enter employment, reduced skills. The unemployed are not some sort of special interest group, they're people who are in a bad situation and any sensible government would try to get them out of it as fast as humanly possible.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Or is it more that they don't know anything else and equally don't have the skills or know how to get a job. How can you fill in an application form when you can't read. And this isn't rare. The average reading she for the UK is 11 with up to about 5.1 million adults being functionally illiterate.
But then I’d say that these ‘families,’ which is what they are don’t help themselves. More intervention is needed by the state at a very young age. There are some of these ‘families’ that shouldn’t have had children in the first place. Our care system needs a massive overhaul, to promote a caring vibe, rather than just a halfway house that it is at the moment.

Just out of interest, are you putting travellers in the same boat? Because they willingly pull their children out of school at Year 8 so they can go and work. Therefore some, in turn are considered illiterate.
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Other_Owl
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My dad told me, "You can go on universal credit now". By, God did I shout at him for it. I said you just want to go on the dole for the rest of my life. He said, I thought you wanted a quick income.
My mum said he just suggesting an option. I DIDN't go on it.
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Vexper
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(Original post by richard10012)
I was watching Yorkshire job centre and this guy only had 50 pounds to live on once he paid his bills and rent. Crazy. A Tory government I guess. How are you meant to live off benefits
Unless you cannot work ie severely disabled/caring for someone severely disabled etc (whereby you get additional amounts towards) then you aren't meant to. The problem arises whereby someone tries to maintain their/a 'working' lifestyle when they aren't working. It's just not possible. You can't afford Ubereats every night - you need to revaluate your life and adapt, which many don't, and it leads to a cycle of struggle. The guy in the documentary was cool and you can see he's been through a lot, but I also would like to see really how he's budgeting his money. He gave a brief explanation but it was very dubious considering all the help you can get whilst on benefit, council tax reduction up to 100% etc and full rent paid to the LHA. The quick shot of his Xbox (a measured purchase even for me at full-time wage) is always a reminder that things shouldn't be taken at face value - in either way. Maybe he was gifted it - maybe not. Who knows? Inability to manage finance whether it be from employment or benefit is not uncommon though.

(Original post by Calibrated.)
With difficulty. I did it for a short period of time. I could manage my basic necessary expenses but anything unexpected like travel expenses for interviews or the fridge going on the blink caused serious troubles. It was a real eye opener to how people in poverty struggle.
JCP pay for your interview travel expenses if you ask them to. They've done that for a long time now. My friend just had his £80 train paid to London for an interview.

Re the second, you can get a budgeting advance but I am agreed in that it's a struggle long-term when stuff breaks. But in the same line of thinking, working or not, things breaking can be stressful financially. It would be a very complex solution to come up with to address general life wear and tear/breakage when on a benefit and not working other than a general budgeting advance because it's ultimately dependent on what breaks.

(Original post by FRS500)
Personally I feel benefits are not fit for purpose. People should be able to afford the basics of living comfortably.

By living comfortably I mean you should be able to properly heat; eat; clothe your family; shouldn't have to worry about rent arrears and if need be you should be able to afford basic public transport (for going to work etc).

On benefit you can hardly do those let alone the basics of running a dirt cheap phone contract; paying your bills (although you can get support with energy and water in some cases) and maybe one subscription.

I really wouldn't begrudge someone who's out of work a Netflix subscription and reasonable access to the internet to help them get back on the job market.

It's not as if you can rely on libraries in these uncertain times, it's also not Dickensian Britain anymore.
Too generic to address in any real detail.

(Original post by Gundabad(good))
If you want to have a relatively comfortable life on benefits, you need to have lots of children. More children = More benefits. Sad system but it exists.
CPAG reading this right now

Image

You have 3 children. They are all growing up. Your daughter (Vanessa) wants to be a tennis player - how are you paying for Vanessa's lessons/club fees? How are you buying her any of her equipment? Children growing up on benefit source alone have significantly reduced outcomes as parents simply cannot afford to enable their dreams or intentions. Children constantly outgrow their clothes and interests whereby you have to financially adapt to this non-stop as a parent. You can't send their child to school in a jumper that is a size 7 when they're now a size 10. Even if you shop cheap it's still very hard to keep up with the growth of children. Very general things that you expect children want to do - a trip to the cinemas, become eye-watering in terms of costs when you're on a benefit only. Noting what a chap said above regarding things breaking - what do kids do? They non-stop break things and tear their clothes. You need to be able to keep up with that too.

So yeah, having Children is not a 'solution' - it's a more complex layer of dilemmas to add your financial situation.

(Original post by Other_Owl)
My dad told me, "You can go on universal credit now". By, God did I shout at him for it. I said you just want to go on the dole for the rest of my life. He said, I thought you wanted a quick income.

My mum said he just suggesting an option. I DIDN't go on it.
Mum and Dad want you to actually use your initative and bring some money into the household that you're likely entitled to... but you buy so much into stigmas that you won't? Not uncommon - and sad.


Another thread of 'benefit bashing' and 'solutions'.

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Other_Owl
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(Original post by Vexper)
Mum and Dad want you to actually use your initative and bring some money into the household that you're likely entitled to... but you buy so much into stigmas that you won't? Not uncommon - and sad.


Another thread of 'benefit bashing' and 'solutions'.

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I'm looking for an apprentship.
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Vexper
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(Original post by Other_Owl)
I'm looking for an apprentship.
Even more reason to make a claim, at least you'd be getting paid to find one and when you do get on it, you can steadily move off UC in line with your earnings.
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Other_Owl
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(Original post by Vexper)
Even more reason to make a claim, at least you'd be getting paid to find one and when you do get on it, you can steadily move off UC in line with your earnings.
I'm interested in the level 3 Google Apprenticeship.
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Vexper
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(Original post by Other_Owl)
I'm interested in the level 3 Google Apprenticeship.
Sounds good. Jobs at Google are very competitive as far as I know!
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ByEeek
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
But then I’d say that these ‘families,’ which is what they are don’t help themselves. More intervention is needed by the state at a very young age. There are some of these ‘families’ that shouldn’t have had children in the first place. Our care system needs a massive overhaul, to promote a caring vibe, rather than just a halfway house that it is at the moment.

Just out of interest, are you putting travellers in the same boat? Because they willingly pull their children out of school at Year 8 so they can go and work. Therefore some, in turn are considered illiterate.
Who are "these" families? I don't know any. Do you? Honestly, if we are to debate poverty in this country could you please use data and facts rather than tabloid stereotypes designed to make you feel superior to others?

So what are you talking about?
Those families in relative poverty in th UK?
Those families in poverty compared to others around the world?
Adults who are functionally iliterate?
Adults who struggle to find work?

You can't say people don't help themselves because quite simply you haven't got a clue what goes on in the private lives of the poorest in our society so how you can judge is beyond me.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by L i b)
Tedious rubbish. Long-term worklessness under any welfare system is not just about financial impoverishment, it correlates with virtually every negative outcome you care to mention: mental health, physical health, sense of self-worth, confidence, ability to re-enter employment, reduced skills. The unemployed are not some sort of special interest group, they're people who are in a bad situation and any sensible government would try to get them out of it as fast as humanly possible.
That does not help the million of long term worklessness who don't claim benefit and supported by the family. I meant a lot people who supported by their family after school/university with low self worth even getting a paper round would help them.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Who are "these" families? I don't know any. Do you? Honestly, if we are to debate poverty in this country could you please use data and facts rather than tabloid stereotypes designed to make you feel superior to others?

So what are you talking about?
Those families in relative poverty in th UK?
Those families in poverty compared to others around the world?
Adults who are functionally iliterate?
Adults who struggle to find work?

You can't say people don't help themselves because quite simply you haven't got a clue what goes on in the private lives of the poorest in our society so how you can judge is beyond me.
It may be a northern thing, or maybe it’s the area I grew up in, but there are families that pride themselves off being on benefits, and haven’t worked a day in their lives, and don’t plan to. This then gets passed onto their children.

These will be the same people I see on public transport who can afford cans of Stella at 9 in the morning, but strangely not a mask.

These are the people you’re excusing. As having a hard time. Poor lambs. Yet they consistently do nothing to help themselves.

I’m not judging, I see it everyday. Deprived areas where the tradition is to not work, drink all day and live off the state. You giving them a pardon, or denying they exist does not help them. You, and others like you who don’t see that this issue exists in our country make it worse. I should add, I do know that this is a minority, but I personally feel it’s a minority that is growing.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It may be a northern thing, or maybe it’s the area I grew up in, but there are families that pride themselves off being on benefits, and haven’t worked a day in their lives, and don’t plan to. This then gets passed onto their children.

These will be the same people I see on public transport who can afford cans of Stella at 9 in the morning, but strangely not a mask.

These are the people you’re excusing. As having a hard time. Poor lambs. Yet they consistently do nothing to help themselves.

I’m not judging, I see it everyday. Deprived areas where the tradition is to not work, drink all day and live off the state. You giving them a pardon, or denying they exist does not help them. You, and others like you who don’t see that this issue exists in our country make it worse. I should add, I do know that this is a minority, but I personally feel it’s a minority that is growing.
Middle class highly educated people are more likely to drink everyday than the poorest 10 % their also more likely to use drugs and have sex outside of a relationship. You only see poor people drinking taking drugs because can't hid it as well not because they drink/take drugs more.
Also there are middle class people who through drinking loss their jobs homes and can be found drinking in the street it not just people for poor backgrounds.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19870190
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45036469
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ByEeek
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
These will be the same people I see on public transport who can afford cans of Stella at 9 in the morning, but strangely not a mask.
Is that something to aspire to? How sh1t does your life need to get so that drinking Stella at 9am becomes a thing? Surely you can see that someone drinking in the morning is not quite right?
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looloo2134
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(Original post by ByEeek)
Is that something to aspire to? How sh1t does your life need to get so that drinking Stella at 9am becomes a thing? Surely you can see that someone drinking in the morning is not quite right?
Will Young twin brother Rupert Young who just died ended up like that even with a supportive family private boarding school very sad.
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L i b
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(Original post by looloo2134)
That does not help the million of long term worklessness who don't claim benefit and supported by the family. I meant a lot people who supported by their family after school/university with low self worth even getting a paper round would help them.
There are certainly large numbers of people who are unemployed who don't claim benefits, but I imagine many will be those who have retired early, who are stay-at-home parents, women who are pregnant etc, idle boulevardiers, bored housewives etc.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by looloo2134)
Middle class highly educated people are more likely to drink everyday than the poorest 10 % their also more likely to use drugs and have sex outside of a relationship. You only see poor people drinking taking drugs because can't hid it as well not because they drink/take drugs more.
Also there are middle class people who through drinking loss their jobs homes and can be found drinking in the street it not just people for poor backgrounds.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19870190
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45036469
"Middle class highly educated people are more likely to drink everyday than the poorest 10 % their also more likely to use drugs and have sex outside of a relationship."

And? If they aren't hurting anyone what is the issue. If they work, and actually contribute something to society then what they do with their money, that they have earned is entirely their choice. Unless I've misunderstood here, and you're talking about highly educated people that do not work?

"Also there are middle class people who through drinking loss their jobs homes and can be found drinking in the street it not just people for poor backgrounds."

And that is where help needs to become more readily available.

(Original post by ByEeek)
Is that something to aspire to? How sh1t does your life need to get so that drinking Stella at 9am becomes a thing? Surely you can see that someone drinking in the morning is not quite right?
I completely agree. What a ****ing life. Honestly, don't get me wrong, I'm sad for these people, but enough is enough to be fair. I don't mind what on earth they do with their spare time, but living off the state is not an option. Like I said above, I see it everyday; families that have done nothing but live off the dole. Where is the pride? Where is the confidence? For years now we've tried to softly softly approach.

Social services are next to useless because they're so afraid of telling it how it is. We now need a tougher approach to lifer benefiteers. Get them in work, or at least, give them some sort of rules to abide by. They shouldn't be spending my money, our taxpayers money on alcohol and drugs. Like I said, maybe it's because I'm from the North, and we are by definition, deprived more than the south. But there are countless areas up here where the norm is to not achieve at school, engage in low level crimes and anti-social behaviours, and most importantly, not work.
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looloo2134
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
"Middle class highly educated people are more likely to drink everyday than the poorest 10 % their also more likely to use drugs and have sex outside of a relationship."

And? If they aren't hurting anyone what is the issue. If they work, and actually contribute something to society then what they do with their money, that they have earned is entirely their choice. Unless I've misunderstood here, and you're talking about highly educated people that do not work?

"Also there are middle class people who through drinking loss their jobs homes and can be found drinking in the street it not just people for poor backgrounds."

And that is where help needs to become more readily available.


I completely agree. What a ****ing life. Honestly, don't get me wrong, I'm sad for these people, but enough is enough to be fair. I don't mind what on earth they do with their spare time, but living off the state is not an option. Like I said above, I see it everyday; families that have done nothing but live off the dole. Where is the pride? Where is the confidence? For years now we've tried to softly softly approach.

Social services are next to useless because they're so afraid of telling it how it is. We now need a tougher approach to lifer benefiteers. Get them in work, or at least, give them some sort of rules to abide by. They shouldn't be spending my money, our taxpayers money on alcohol and drugs. Like I said, maybe it's because I'm from the North, and we are by definition, deprived more than the south. But there are countless areas up here where the norm is to not achieve at school, engage in low level crimes and anti-social behaviours, and most importantly, not work.
Having well pay job and taking drugs does not contribute anything to society they add to crime their nothing but hypocrites.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I completely agree. What a ****ing life. Honestly, don't get me wrong, I'm sad for these people, but enough is enough to be fair. I don't mind what on earth they do with their spare time, but living off the state is not an option. Like I said above, I see it everyday; families that have done nothing but live off the dole. Where is the pride? Where is the confidence? For years now we've tried to softly softly approach.

Social services are next to useless because they're so afraid of telling it how it is.
Just out of curiosity, can you give me an example of when your parents told you it how it is and what happened. You know stuff like, "You've been on you XBox all day. Now get off your arse and do the washing up!"

Now, which of the following did you do
A) You said, "Oh thank you so much Mamaa and Pappa for reminding me of how I am wasting my time and giving the opportunity to make all our lives better by me doing the washing up."
B) Under you breath you told them to f-off before saying you would do it in a minute.

In other words when does telling someone the hard truth (that they already know) have a positive impact? Surely these peopl require solutions, not sanctions?

And here is another question. Inagine you are an employer. Doesn't matter what your business is. Would you employ the long trm unemployed? I wouldn't.

So on the one hand you think they should get a job but on the other, who would employ them. I am sure ranting at them would make you feel better but it would only increase lower life expectancy and mental health issues like drug tsking and alcoholism.

Until you understand what living a hopeless life is, I don't think you can judge.
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