Epic Games is suing Apple (over antitrust concerns)

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username5177602
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https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/2...unctive-relief

TLDR: Epic is suing Apple over anti-trust concerns after Fortnite was removed from the App Store due to Epic attempting to bypass Apple's 30% cut of in app purchases.

I'm surprised it's taken this long. Apple has too much control over the iOS platform imo.

Edit: It's been kicked off the Play Store on Android now(article). While Google shouldn't be doing this either, at least you can sideload stuff on Android.

Edit 2: Now Epic is suing Google(article).
Last edited by username5177602; 1 month ago
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Gofre
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Epic in 2018: We want to put Fortnite on your app stores
Apple & Google: That's cool, but you have to use our payment systems like every other game
Epic: Ok, fine

Epic in 2020: We're going to direct people to bypass your payment systems from within the apps you distribute for us
Apple & Google: Ok, we're removing your app then
Epic:
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Putting aside the ethics of Apple and Google's policies which I agree definitely need to be scrutinised (albeit less of an issue with the latter given the myriad of distribution options on Android), I don't know what Epic were expecting to happen when they pulled this move after they went through this whole saga when they originally tried to release the apps before caving. It's not like they're a struggling indie dev who tried to sneak the option in because they need the extra revenue to keep the lights on, Fortnite is a grotesquely profitable entity. I'm all for pushing Apple on their antitrust behaviour and working towards reform, but this was the only outcome we were going to get. Either Epic have handled this move really badly, or they've done it deliberately to bait Apple into a lawsuit, and that wouldn't be surprising given how quickly they had the papers filed and the 1984 parody video ready.
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username5177602
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(Original post by Gofre)
Putting aside the ethics of Apple and Google's policies which I agree definitely need to be scrutinised (albeit less of an issue with the latter given the myriad of distribution options on Android), I don't know what Epic were expecting to happen when they pulled this move after they went through this whole saga when they originally tried to release the apps before caving.
It was probably a planned move, the time between Apple and Google banning Fortnite and Epic announcing they would sue them respectively seems too short for them to have both been able to write up two ~65 page legal documents and make the 1984 parody. Even one of the legal documents is a stretch really. I agree it's not so bad on the Android side since you can sideload apps from outside the Play Store. You can even get it on Samsung's Galaxy Store if you were so inclined.
(Original post by Gofre)
It's not like they're a struggling indie dev who tried to sneak the option in because they need the extra revenue to keep the lights on, Fortnite is a grotesquely profitable entity.
Yeah, credit where credit's due, Epic is probably doing all of this for the sake of money.
(Original post by Gofre)
I'm all for pushing Apple on their antitrust behaviour and working towards reform, but this was the only outcome we were going to get. Either Epic have handled this move really badly, or they've done it deliberately to bait Apple into a lawsuit, and that wouldn't be surprising given how quickly they had the papers filed and the 1984 parody video ready.
It probably was bait to be fair.
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Chronoscope
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Tbf if you decide to put an app on someones app store, you should expect to follow their T's&C's :lol:
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username5177602
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(Original post by Chronoscope)
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Tbf if you decide to put an app on someones app store, you should expect to follow their T's&C's :lol:
I agree, but to be fair that's only one part of the story.

I will say though, that both companies(all 3 if you treat Apple and Google as separate) have valid sides of the argument. Epic should have followed followed the rules, but at the same time I can see how the rules might be considered unfair. 30% is actually quite a bit of money once you factor in other expenses, and quite honestly the user should be able to install what they want on their own devices, which is something that Apple in particular doesn't seem to grasp.
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lulu_hhay
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While generally I wouldn't care about the squabbling between trillion dollar companies and a multi-billion dollar company over money, I do hope Epic can get the 30% standard lowered. Not for their sake, but for the sake of smaller and indie developers who could really use and deserve that money

You can say they should comply with the terms and conditions, but when those are being enforced by giant corporations with monopolies over the market, I really don't feel any pity for Apple/Google when someone tries to defy them and get that monopoly broken.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by bluewolf21)
Apple has too much control over the iOS platform imo.
What?

Apple owns the iOS platform, it stands to reason they should be able to control their own product.

If Epic doesn't want to comply with the T&Cs then they have no right to get access to the platform. If would be the same if any user on here didn't want to comply, they would get banned. Would you argue that TSRG has too much control over TSR?
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username5177602
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
What?
Read the following:
(Original post by DiddyDec)
Apple owns the iOS platform, it stands to reason they should be able to control their own product.
And that platform is running on hardware that the user paid for - which means that the user should have more control over things like where they can install apps to name one example. It's not like you can play the "I don't want sideloading" card either, because you wouldn't have to be forced to. But the user should be able to make that decision for themselves, not because Apple is making that decision for them.

Besides, there's a point in which that's not a fair argument. Only recently, Apple blocked Facebook from telling it's users that 30% of the payment for their service, which allows the user to donate to local business without Facebook taking a fee, was going to Apple. Say what you want about Facebook, I think they're a bad company too, but it's hard to deny Apple trying to silence them is going a bit too far. This article is worth a read on the matter

And then there's the xCloud scenario, where Microsoft couldn't release it's xCloud service because Apple wanted to review each game submitted to the service individually despite the fact that they don't review every movie on Netflix, or every song on Spotify. It's not like the former doesn't have interactive content anyway.

It's not like Apple even applies these rules fairly. While Apple normally charges 30% on IAPs, they gave Amazon 15% off. This article is worth a read on that matter.
(Original post by DiddyDec)
If Epic doesn't want to comply with the T&Cs then they have no right to get access to the platform.
I'm not disagreeing with that one, but developers shouldn't be forced to go through one store because only Apple wins in that scenario because they make money. The developer loses because they have to pay fees, which while higher than they should be considering the extra charges they have to pay such as the £99 every year, are reasonable on an OS like Android where you can sideload apps, but on iOS where you've not got an option it's not as fair of an argument. And the user loses, because either they'll have to pay an extra fee for said app, or they won't be able to get it because they can't just sideload it.
(Original post by DiddyDec)
If would be the same if any user on here didn't want to comply, they would get banned. Would you argue that TSRG has too much control over TSR?
No, because that's a different scenario. The rules that TSRG puts on TSR are, for lack of a better term, there to protect the users of the website, and whilst some of the App Store rules are there for that reason(I don't think anyone wants malware roaming through the App Store), others are there mainly for the sake of making money.[/quote]
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