Why do people think A Level results are to do with classism?

Watch
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#1
At least two prominent figures on Twitter (Jack Edwards and Eve Bennett) have suggested that the 35% of students who received one grade lower than they were predicted is a classist issue. Where is the evidence though? Granted, you're more likely to go to Eton if you're a middle-upper class male, but that doesn't mean that your A Level results will be any different to a working class person who went to their local comprehensive. Ibz Mo went to a rubbish college in London which was historically poor in getting results and he was from a single parent family and received free school meals etc. He worked hard. That's all it takes to get good results. He pushed and pushed and pushed and then *boom* he got into Cambridge. I know many middle class people at my school who received worse results than the working class people. Even in my neighbourhood, which is the second most deprived town in the UK, I know people who got into the grammar schools that I didn't.

The A Level results are not a classist issue.
0
reply
ry7xsfa
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#2
Report 1 month ago
#2
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
At least two prominent figures on Twitter (Jack Edwards and Eve Bennett) have suggested that the 35% of students who received one grade lower than they were predicted is a classist issue. Where is the evidence though? Granted, you're more likely to go to Eton if you're a middle-upper class male, but that doesn't mean that your A Level results will be any different to a working class person who went to their local comprehensive. Ibz Mo went to a rubbish college in London which was historically poor in getting results and he was from a single parent family and received free school meals etc. He worked hard. That's all it takes to get good results. He pushed and pushed and pushed and then *boom* he got into Cambridge. I know many middle class people at my school who received worse results than the working class people. Even in my neighbourhood, which is the second most deprived town in the UK, I know people who got into the grammar schools that I didn't.

The A Level results are not a classist issue.
The system takes into account the historical performance of students at your school. Generally, the rich private schools have much higher results due to the students being able to afford private tuition, and sometimes the school will even subsidise this. Meanwhile, students from more economically-deprived areas aren't able to afford their own tutors, so few will achieve the highest grades (no matter how hard they work - there's a limiting barrier there). If you look at the figures, this year the number of A and A* grades in private schools went up by 4.7% - more than double the figure that was seen in public schools.

The algorithm can't see how hard you've worked. The indication of how hard you have worked comes from your Centre Assessed Grades. But if these are high, and your school's previous results are low, then you'll be downgraded no matter how hard you've worked. Schools from richer areas have generally better results than those from poorer areas because they can afford private tuition and the resources they need to do well if they are struggling, something that a student from a poorer family and school wouldn't have access to.

There's a reason why getting into Oxbridge is celebrated as a big achievement for poorer public school students, but an expectation for rich private school students. The bias towards private school students is automatically skewed in the applications process because of a difference in opportunities available, but getting an offer is one thing, getting the grades is another. At a richer school, it's expected that you will get the offer and the grades. At a poorer public school, getting an offer is an achievement in itself, but then getting the grades is what's celebrated as it doesn't happen often in these backgrounds.
Last edited by ry7xsfa; 1 month ago
34
reply
Doones
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3
Report 1 month ago
#3
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
At least two prominent figures on Twitter (Jack Edwards and Eve Bennett) have suggested that the 35% of students who received one grade lower than they were predicted is a classist issue. Where is the evidence though? Granted, you're more likely to go to Eton if you're a middle-upper class male, but that doesn't mean that your A Level results will be any different to a working class person who went to their local comprehensive. Ibz Mo went to a rubbish college in London which was historically poor in getting results and he was from a single parent family and received free school meals etc. He worked hard. That's all it takes to get good results. He pushed and pushed and pushed and then *boom* he got into Cambridge. I know many middle class people at my school who received worse results than the working class people. Even in my neighbourhood, which is the second most deprived town in the UK, I know people who got into the grammar schools that I didn't.

The A Level results are not a classist issue.
Ibz Mo is an exception.

This is the problem:
Name:  Screenshot 2020-08-14 at 12.51.58.png
Views: 26
Size:  74.1 KB
21
reply
nexttime
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#4
Report 1 month ago
#4
(Original post by Doones)
Ibz Mo is an exception.

This is the problem:
Name:  Screenshot 2020-08-14 at 12.51.58.png
Views: 26
Size:  74.1 KB
I wonder if state schools normally over-predict more than private schools.
4
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#5
(Original post by nexttime)
I wonder if state schools normally over-predict more than private schools.
The top performing schools in THE WHOLE OF THE WEST MIDLANDS are State schools

King Edward's Aston Boys
King Edward's Handsworth Girls
King Edward's Handsworth Boys
King Edward's Five Ways
King Edward's Camphill Boys
King Edward's Camphill Girls
Wolverhampton Girls High School
Sutton Coldfield Girls High School
Bishop Vesey's Boys School
Queen Mary's Boys School
Queen Mary's Girls School
St Paul's Girls School
Nishkam Sikh School
1
reply
MalcolmX
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#6
Report 1 month ago
#6
(Original post by Doones)
Ibz Mo is an exception.

This is the problem:
Name:  Screenshot 2020-08-14 at 12.51.58.png
Views: 26
Size:  74.1 KB
meritocracy :laugh:
1
reply
sakura_23
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#7
Report 1 month ago
#7
(Original post by nexttime)
I wonder if state schools normally over-predict more than private schools.
This is something I’ve been thinking about as well. My school is private, but has a rep for predicting very accurate grades. That’s not to say that there aren’t problems with the system the government has put in place, but it’s rare that even 95% of predicted grades will be accurate, even for my school. So that is one thing to keep in mind.
0
reply
Doones
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#8
Report 1 month ago
#8
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
The top performing schools in THE WHOLE OF THE WEST MIDLANDS are State schools

King Edward's Aston Boys
King Edward's Handsworth Girls
King Edward's Handsworth Boys
King Edward's Five Ways
King Edward's Camphill Boys
King Edward's Camphill Girls
Wolverhampton Girls High School
Sutton Coldfield Girls High School
Bishop Vesey's Boys School
Queen Mary's Boys School
Queen Mary's Girls School
St Paul's Girls School
Nishkam Sikh School
Are they selective?
0
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#9
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#9
(Original post by Doones)
Are they selective?
Depends what you mean by selective

The first 11 are grammar schools

St Pauls and Nishkam are selective by faith

The only mixed schools are Five Ways and Nishkam so the others are selective by the sex of the student (Although Handsworth Boys and Queens Mary Boys take Girls in the Sixth Form)

But they are all state schools
1
reply
alice544
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#10
Report 1 month ago
#10
I have seen reports of downgrading across school private and state. However i do believe private schools have a statistically higher chance of achieving teacher predictions due to a combination of past school results and small class sizes. Classes of less than 15 had more weight put on teacher predictions and typically private school will have both great previous results and small classes. Both Parents and private school students know they have a advantage in many aspects not just acemdically and that why they pay the money to go to those schools. It's not necessarily a class divide more of a education divide between the state educated and privately educated.
5
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#11
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#11
(Original post by Doones)
Are they selective?
Forgot to mention..
Lordswood Girls which is a comprehensive
King's Norton Girls which is an Academy
Aldersly High which is a comprehensive
King Ed's Stourbridge which is a non selective college and unaffiliated with all the other King Edward's Schools
0
reply
Doones
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#12
Report 1 month ago
#12
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
Depends what you mean by selective

The first 11 are grammar schools

St Pauls and Nishkam are selective by faith

The only mixed schools are Five Ways and Nishkam so the others are selective by the sex of the student (Although Handsworth Boys and Queens Mary Boys take Girls in the Sixth Form)

But they are all state schools
There's quite a difference between grammars, or other selective schools, and "standard" state schools.

Cambridge seperates them out when it does it's own cohort analysis. For good, and obvious, reasons.

Name:  Screenshot 2020-08-14 at 23.54.38.png
Views: 29
Size:  231.4 KB
0
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#13
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#13
(Original post by Doones)
There's quite a difference between grammars, or other selective schools, and "standard" state schools.

Cambridge seperates them out when it does it's own cohort analysis. For good, and obvious, reasons.

Name:  Screenshot 2020-08-14 at 23.54.38.png
Views: 29
Size:  231.4 KB
What this table shows is that the "standard" comprehensive state schools had more acceptances to Cambridge than independent schools (842 v 808)

The selective schools (independent and grammar) did send 1369 students to Cambridge but the non-selective schools (comprehensive SF Colleges and FE Tertiaries) did still send 1210 to Cambridge.

I'm not completely sure what this has to do with A Level RESULTS and class because the Cambridge application and admissions process is a whole other issue.
1
reply
Doones
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#14
Report 1 month ago
#14
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
What this table shows is that the "standard" comprehensive state schools had more acceptances to Cambridge than independent schools (842 v 808)
Sigh. Look at the relative numbers:
Comprehensives success rate 18.1%
Independents... 24.5%
= independents are 26% more succesful
Last edited by Doones; 1 month ago
2
reply
_Wellies_
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#15
Report 1 month ago
#15
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
What this table shows is that the "standard" comprehensive state schools had more acceptances to Cambridge than independent schools (842 v 808)

The selective schools (independent and grammar) did send 1369 students to Cambridge but the non-selective schools (comprehensive SF Colleges and FE Tertiaries) did still send 1210 to Cambridge.

I'm not completely sure what this has to do with A Level RESULTS and class because the Cambridge application and admissions process is a whole other issue.
You won't get into Cambridge with your analysis skills.
13
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#16
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#16
(Original post by _Wellies_)
You won't get into Cambridge with your analysis skills.
Good thing I'm not studying maths then

Also

Good thing I don't even WANT to go to Cambridge because 8 week terms are not for me thank you very much

Also

This post is not about getting into Cambridge. It's about the A Level RESULTS and classism because I thoroughly do not believe it has anything to do with whether you're working, middle or upper class because there are plenty of middle class kids who go to their local comprehensive and there are plenty of working class kids who are clever enough to get a scholarship to the independent schools or get a place at the top grammar schools.

Also

18% compared to 25% isn't that big a difference. That's only 7% difference.
0
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#17
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#17
(Original post by Doones)
Sigh. Look at the relative numbers:
Comprehensives success rate 18.1%
Independents... 24.5%
= independents are 26% more successful
How does 18.1% to 24.5% give you a 26% higher success rate? Isn't the difference 6.4%?
0
reply
username2393237
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 month ago
#18
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
What this table shows is that the "standard" comprehensive state schools had more acceptances to Cambridge than independent schools (842 v 808)

The selective schools (independent and grammar) did send 1369 students to Cambridge but the non-selective schools (comprehensive SF Colleges and FE Tertiaries) did still send 1210 to Cambridge.

I'm not completely sure what this has to do with A Level RESULTS and class because the Cambridge application and admissions process is a whole other issue.
Who repped this post? 😬
0
reply
Doones
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#19
Report 1 month ago
#19
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
Good thing I'm not studying maths then
...
18% compared to 25% isn't that big a difference. That's only 7% difference.
(Original post by GillisRobbieWGS)
How does 18.1% to 24.5% give you a 26% higher success rate? Isn't the difference 6.4%?
The difference is:
(24.5-18.1) / 24.5
= 6.4 / 24.5
= 26.1%
0
reply
GillisRobbieWGS
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#20
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#20
(Original post by Doones)
The difference is:
(24.5-18.1) / 24.5
= 6.4 / 24.5
= 26.1%
You can tell I don't study maths
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

How are you feeling ahead of starting University?

I am excited and looking forward to starting (50)
13.62%
I am excited but have some apprehension around Covid-19 measures (50)
13.62%
I am concerned I will miss out on aspects of the uni experience due to new measures (136)
37.06%
I am concerned the Covid-19 measures at uni are not strong enough (39)
10.63%
I am nervous and feel I don't have enough information (71)
19.35%
Something else (let us know in the thread!) (21)
5.72%

Watched Threads

View All