American ideas about racism are influencing Europe

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Azagthoa
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#41
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What we need is equity, not equality. For too long white men have had it too easy in the western world. I'm excited by the racial enlightening currently sweeping the globe, it is a very powerful movement. Finally, PoC will be able to unlock their potential that has for so long been held back by the shackles of white men.
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Napp
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Azagthoa)
What we need is equity, not equality. For too long white men have had it too easy in the western world. I'm excited by the racial enlightening currently sweeping the globe, it is a very powerful movement. Finally, PoC will be able to unlock their potential that has for so long been held back by the shackles of white men.
So you think white women should be superior? You sound a touch sexist.

I'm curious why you take exception to 'white people having it easy' in, well, the white world though? Not that they do by any metric though given many still live in poverty.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Occitanie)
Maybe it's your views that are bad, not the UK public?
”if everywhere smells of **** check the bottom of your shoe”
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
What we need is equity, not equality. For too long white men have had it too easy in the western world. I'm excited by the racial enlightening currently sweeping the globe, it is a very powerful movement. Finally, PoC will be able to unlock their potential that has for so long been held back by the shackles of white men.
”I have a dream... of a world where my four little children are judged not by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character” - the Revd. Martin Luther King Jr, 1963
”what we [black people] need is... not equality” - a racist TSR poster, 2020

My grandad's generation fought for equality and it's sad to see my generation fight against it.
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Azagthoa
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It's more the world is waking up to how we have been socialised into a white supremacist society. From birth, people of all races but especially whites are socialised into whiteness and anti-Black thinking. This creates a world where white people are all racist due to their socialisation. To try and combat it, they must become anti-racist which involves having to undergo a life long commitment to learning about and understanding their whiteness and inherent racism. They should be prepared to feel uncomfortable and have difficult conversations. I hope one day you two will both realise the truths of your inherent racism and of the racism in society and try to undertake these same steps. I recommend you to read White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo and and How to be an Anti-Racist by Ibram X. Kendi to get you started.

(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
”I have a dream... of a world where my four little children are judged not by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character” - the Revd. Martin Luther King Jr, 1963
”what we [black people] need is... not equality” - a racist TSR poster, 2020

My grandad's generation fought for equality and it's sad to see my generation fight against it.
(Original post by Napp)
So you think white women should be superior? You sound a touch sexist.

I'm curious why you take exception to 'white people having it easy' in, well, the white world though? Not that they do by any metric though given many still live in poverty.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
It's more the world is waking up to how we have been socialised into a white supremacist society.
Who's we? People in the UK, whites, or all humans?
From birth, people of all races but especially whites are socialised into whiteness and anti-Black thinking.
Tell me how someone who's brought up in the Nation of Islam cult is socialised into whiteness, given that the NoI believes that whites were created in a science experiment by the Biblical patriarch Jacob on the island of Cyprus?
This creates a world where white people are all racist due to their socialisation.
I agree with you here - white people do show bias in favour of whites but the same holds true for all races. In-group bias is, sadly, human nature and doesn't just apply to race, but to religion and sex as well.
To try and combat it, they must become anti-racist which involves having to undergo a life long commitment to learning about and understanding their whiteness and inherent racism.
Define whiteness. Do you mean ”not having as much melanin in your skin as some people” or do you mean something else?
They should be prepared to feel uncomfortable and have difficult conversations. I hope one day you two will both realise the truths of your inherent racism and of the racism in society and try to undertake these same steps. I recommend you to read White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo and and How to be an Anti-Racist by Ibram X. Kendi to get you started.
Can you give me some examples of the ”racism in society”? Would you say that Nigerian society is socialised into ”whiteness and anti-black thinking”?
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Napp
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
It's more the world is waking up to how we have been socialised into a white supremacist society. From birth, people of all races but especially whites are socialised into whiteness and anti-Black thinking. This creates a world where white people are all racist due to their socialisation. To try and combat it, they must become anti-racist which involves having to undergo a life long commitment to learning about and understanding their whiteness and inherent racism. They should be prepared to feel uncomfortable and have difficult conversations. I hope one day you two will both realise the truths of your inherent racism and of the racism in society and try to undertake these same steps. I recommend you to read White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo and and How to be an Anti-Racist by Ibram X. Kendi to get you started.
I think you'll find "the world" is clearly not "a white supremisist society" given that most countries are not white...
Yeah, the fact you think, risibly i might add, that "all white people are racist" is clearly a load of complete rubbish. As for the rest of the garbage of this post, pah. A 3rd rate book by a 4th rate so called academic. You're going to have to do a touch better than that to prove that "all whites are racist" and every race on earth are white supremisists.

To be frank you're the one who sounds like a racist and sexist.
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Napp
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#48
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(Original post by LiberOfLondon)
Who's we? People in the UK, whites, or all humans?

Tell me how someone who's brought up in the Nation of Islam cult is socialised into whiteness, given that the NoI believes that whites were created in a science experiment by the Biblical patriarch Jacob on the island of Cyprus?

I agree with you here - white people do show bias in favour of whites but the same holds true for all races. In-group bias is, sadly, human nature and doesn't just apply to race, but to religion and sex as well.

Define whiteness. Do you mean ”not having as much melanin in your skin as some people” or do you mean something else?

Can you give me some examples of the ”racism in society”? Would you say that Nigerian society is socialised into ”whiteness and anti-black thinking”?
What is it with these people quoting that quack Di Angelo as some sort of all knowing authority on racism?(ironically usually in the same breath as they say something racist themselves).

The more interesting thing i find about these claims though is that they seem to think its only blacks who can be hard done by in the world and the only ones who can racism racism. A hilariously ignorant way of thinking, at best.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Napp)
What is it with these people quoting that quack Di Angelo as some sort of all knowing authority on racism?(ironically usually in the same breath as they say something racist themselves).

The more interesting thing i find about these claims though is that they seem to think its only blacks who can be hard done by in the world and the only ones who can racism racism. A hilariously ignorant way of thinking, at best.
DiAngelo gets quoted so much because ”you're white, therefore your arguments are made from a privileged position and have no merit” is a very useful thing to say when you've lost the argument.
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Ascend
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International Scholars Must Resist the American Campaign to Inject Racial Tribalism Into Science

The racialization of discourses, a phenomenon that has spread rapidly to other Western countries from the United States, is increasingly metastasizing into science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM). The process is on display at numerous scientific institutions and journals, including the National Academy of Sciences, the National Academy of Engineering, and the National Academy of Medicine. In Science, chemist Holden Thorp declared that “the evidence of systemic racism in science permeates this nation [i.e., the United States].” In an unsigned editorial, Nature editors pledged to end (unspecified) “anti-Black practices in research.” They also declared that they lead “one of the white institutions that is responsible for bias in research and scholarship,” and that “the enterprise of science has been—and remains—complicit in systemic racism, and it must strive harder to correct those injustices and amplify marginalized voices.”
Our European experience provides no shortage of cautionary tales—including Renaissance Florence under the influence of Dominican friar Girolamo Savonarola, who imposed a regime of religious purity in the 1490s. Such was his sway that no less an artist than Sandro Botticelli was induced to burn his creations and give up painting. In all eras, the demands of ideological purity serve to suppress the pursuit of art and reason. Standing up to puritans is necessary if we are to protect the telos and soul of science.
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Azagthoa
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This is exactly the sort of article that privileged, white professors write who are ignorant and afraid of losing their positions of power over PoC.

It's a fact that science is built on racism; science is done by humans and humans are subject to biases. In particular, modern science is founded on whiteness and white supremacy and thus is inherently anti-Black. The current shutdownstem movement is trying to get brown and Black voices heard within STEM as they have been silenced for too long. Basing science on 'objective truths' is founded in white supremacy and disregards Black, indigenous and other key knowledges. The fact that the top science journals such as Nature and Science agree with this should tell you something. This is one of the key reasons that BLM and other key movements are so important.
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Ascend
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Basing science on 'objective truths' is founded in white supremacy and disregards Black, indigenous and other key knowledges.
Such as?
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Napp
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
This is exactly the sort of article that privileged, white professors write who are ignorant and afraid of losing their positions of power over PoC.

It's a fact that science is built on racism; science is done by humans and humans are subject to biases. In particular, modern science is founded on whiteness and white supremacy and thus is inherently anti-Black. The current shutdownstem movement is trying to get brown and Black voices heard within STEM as they have been silenced for too long. Basing science on 'objective truths' is founded in white supremacy and disregards Black, indigenous and other key knowledges. The fact that the top science journals such as Nature and Science agree with this should tell you something. This is one of the key reasons that BLM and other key movements are so important.
Do you have any actual, you know, evidence to back up this claim that everything in the world has it in for blacks?

Also, stop conflating "anti-blackism" with racism as if they're synonymous. They are not. Especially as Africa itself is a hotbed of racism. Something i note you're politely skipping over along with the other innumerable instances of racism that have nothing to do with whites. Be it asians, latinos, mestizos etc. The fact you think only whites are capable of racism, once again, demonstrates that you're a racist, and quite an egregious one apparently.
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Azagthoa
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(Original post by Ascend)
Such as?
Just look at the current covid 19 crisis for example. PoC died at disproportionately high rates compares to whites, just one of the many examples of racism in modern science and medicine. Please read 'Superior' by Angela Siani.
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Napp
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(Original post by Ascend)
Such as?
I'm not certain this user quite understands what *real* racism is - especially when accusing a test tube of it.
I must say, I find it rather hard to take its views seriously when they're dishonestly making out the West (and inparticular Britain apparently) are nothing but couldrens of racism. It really shows this user doesnt know much about the world. Take somewhere like Malaysia where racism is enshrined in the constitution. Similar for several African countries (although more de facto then de jure).

Either way, truly shockingly ignorant claims from these people.
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Ascend
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Just look at the current covid 19 crisis for example. PoC died at disproportionately high rates compares to whites, just one of the many examples of racism in modern science and medicine. Please read 'Superior' by Angela Siani.
You claimed that science "disregards Black, indigenous and other key knowledges". Can you provide examples of these "key knowledges"?
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
This is exactly the sort of article that privileged, white professors write who are ignorant and afraid of losing their positions of power over PoC.

It's a fact that science is built on racism; science is done by humans and humans are subject to biases. In particular, modern science is founded on whiteness and white supremacy and thus is inherently anti-Black. The current shutdownstem movement is trying to get brown and Black voices heard within STEM as they have been silenced for too long. Basing science on 'objective truths' is founded in white supremacy and disregards Black, indigenous and other key knowledges. The fact that the top science journals such as Nature and Science agree with this should tell you something. This is one of the key reasons that BLM and other key movements are so important.
”objective truths are based in white supremacy”.

A chemical formula such as 2Na+2HCl -> 2NaCl +H2 is objectively true no matter whether the person mixing sodium and hydrochloric acid is black or white. You cannot rewrite science to suit your ideological beliefs.
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Ascend
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(Original post by Napp)
I'm not certain this user quite understands what *real* racism is - especially when accusing a test tube of it.
I must say, I find it rather hard to take its views seriously when they're dishonestly making out the West (and inparticular Britain apparently) are nothing but couldrens of racism. It really shows this user doesnt know much about the world. Take somewhere like Malaysia where racism is enshrined in the constitution. Similar for several African countries (although more de facto then de jure).

Either way, truly shockingly ignorant claims from these people.
It's the ironic privilege of living in the West and having such a narrow, first world mindset that ignores the rest of the world.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Just look at the current covid 19 crisis for example. PoC died at disproportionately high rates compares to whites, just one of the many examples of racism in modern science and medicine. Please read 'Superior' by Angela Siani.
The vast majority of people in the UK who have sickle cell anaemia are black. Is this down to white supremacy?
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Just look at the current covid 19 crisis for example. PoC died at disproportionately high rates compares to whites, just one of the many examples of racism in modern science and medicine. Please read 'Superior' by Angela Siani.
Do you see why so many people disregard arguments about racism? You’re saying coronavirus is racist...


(Original post by Azagthoa)
This is exactly the sort of article that privileged, white professors write who are ignorant and afraid of losing their positions of power over PoC.

It's a fact that science is built on racism; science is done by humans and humans are subject to biases. In particular, modern science is founded on whiteness and white supremacy and thus is inherently anti-Black. The current shutdownstem movement is trying to get brown and Black voices heard within STEM as they have been silenced for too long. Basing science on 'objective truths' is founded in white supremacy and disregards Black, indigenous and other key knowledges. The fact that the top science journals such as Nature and Science agree with this should tell you something. This is one of the key reasons that BLM and other key movements are so important.
What an utterly moronic thing to say. Science is not based on objective truth or racism, it’s based on the preponderance of evidence. What is key knowledges supposed to mean? It comes across as though you’re referring to things like Native American and African tribal beliefs in things like healing power and spirits. If someone can provide evidence and create a repeatable test I’m sure ‘science’ will accept them.
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