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Those who vote for the Tories...
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Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
Can you produce some evidence that shows that it will be damaging to the economy?
Don't you think it is about time that the Brexit side, the actual winners of the Referendum to produce some, even the slightest evidence for their claims?
Just like in the religion forums it is those who make the claims first that need to put some evidence on the table. I.e those who believe in extraordinary matters..
Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
1) hugely depends on how much you value sovereignty but I would say so. I'm a bit shocked that someone who supports harsh punishment for criminals also supports the EU human rights legislation that prevents us from reintroducing capital punishment and forced labour for criminals.
I am not quite sure whether forced labour is against international law. Certainly slavery and child labour are. You seem to be confusing what country the UK is and you probably mixed it up with countries in the middle East, China, and South East Asia in terms of the provision of human rights.
The scenario you are describing is a nightmare for ordinary people.
As if the judiciary and the justice system will ever allow anything like that to happen. Fortunately the way justice is, with all of its problems and issues, is never conducted with ludicrous referendums run by the SUN and the Mail...
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by londonmyst
Arguably the pandemic will be far more damaging to our economy than Brexit or the aftermath of Brexit.
But all the staunchest Brexiteers that I know acknowledged in 2016 & 2019 that: 1) in the short term Brexit will adversely impact upon the British economy, 2) chances of negotiating a remotely favourable trade deal with the EU that is reasonably advantageous to British interests are negligible and 3) there is almost certain to be a sharp decline in Britain's economic output & growth levels for at least 18 months after the final end of the transition arrangements.
But all the staunchest Brexiteers that I know acknowledged in 2016 & 2019 that: 1) in the short term Brexit will adversely impact upon the British economy, 2) chances of negotiating a remotely favourable trade deal with the EU that is reasonably advantageous to British interests are negligible and 3) there is almost certain to be a sharp decline in Britain's economic output & growth levels for at least 18 months after the final end of the transition arrangements.
Brexit will have a short term impact on the British economy, I'm not denying that.
Original post by imlikeahermit
You’ve got to be joking. You’re better than that...
As Londonmyst has kindly pointed out about, even the staunchest Brexiteer isn’t blind to the economic damage this does.
As Londonmyst has kindly pointed out about, even the staunchest Brexiteer isn’t blind to the economic damage this does.
Can you link me a source?
Original post by Napp
I was more getting at the fact that noone really bats an eyelid at the polish example yet if you go with the Israel one all hell breaks loose.
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
Original post by Lucifer323
Was it all or you have more about these two great points?!
Rebate did you say?!
Tell me one more country that gets a rebate in Europe as good as the UK which is over 50% and is as high as 66% as far as I remember..
Find me another country that is not in the Sengen Agreement, not in the Euro Currency and still gets that rebate and priceless workers from Europe that fill classes, hospitals, and universities..
The UK had the most provocative privileges from all the countries in the EU but unfortunately its electorate is not the most wised and this is proven on numerous occasions apart from the Brexit Vote...
@Rakas21
Rebate did you say?!
Tell me one more country that gets a rebate in Europe as good as the UK which is over 50% and is as high as 66% as far as I remember..
Find me another country that is not in the Sengen Agreement, not in the Euro Currency and still gets that rebate and priceless workers from Europe that fill classes, hospitals, and universities..
The UK had the most provocative privileges from all the countries in the EU but unfortunately its electorate is not the most wised and this is proven on numerous occasions apart from the Brexit Vote...
@Rakas21
You didn't answer my question about Poland.
We are still a net contributor to the EU and we still have to follow laws made, by and large, by people who do not pay tax in Britain and do not hold British citizenship.
Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
Annoyed? Yes. Branded a racist on a par with Hitler? No. After all antisemitism is generally considered worse than just being anti any old country and supposedly denying Israel a right to exist falls into that category. Nevertheless, i have still never heard anyone actually give a reason as to why it has a right to exist as, unlike Poland, its an artificial country created by colonial double crossing and, amusingly enough, terrorism. Theres a good reason we tacitly supported the Arabs on independence and thats because of the waves of Jewish terror.
Original post by Lucifer323
There is nothing more misleading than the claims and orchestrated propaganda of the leave side supported so much by the Mail and the SUN from the beginning to the end..
There is nothing more misleading than the claims and orchestrated propaganda of the leave side supported so much by the Mail and the SUN from the beginning to the end..
God you are hard work, what is it you are arguing against, do you even know?
Your rambling is so incoherent I've said god knows how many times it was misleading we agree I doubt anyone would claim the message on the side of the bus wasn't misleading. Real Tory supporters might claim the Tories are actually fulfilling this claim.anyway as we speak via the increase funding to the NHS which they are.
Original post by Lucifer323
So what if they have deliver whatever they have delivered?
.
.
Well you are the one making a mountain out of them not doing, so if they have delivered the cash boost to the NHS and you know they have, WTF are you on about
Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
Brexit will have a short term impact on the British economy, I'm not denying that.
More like a long term one, this is something everyone agrees with on both sides of the aisle.
Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
Brexit will have a short term impact on the British economy, I'm not denying that.
Can you link me a source?
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
You didn't answer my question about Poland.
We are still a net contributor to the EU and we still have to follow laws made, by and large, by people who do not pay tax in Britain and do not hold British citizenship.
Can you link me a source?
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
You didn't answer my question about Poland.
We are still a net contributor to the EU and we still have to follow laws made, by and large, by people who do not pay tax in Britain and do not hold British citizenship.
Was the question in relation to Poland for me? I thought it was for Mr Napp..
Re-state the question as I haven't followed what you were talking about.
The claims about the net comtribition aren't that great as we have already shown in earlier posts.
Original post by Burton Bridge
God you are hard work, what is it you are arguing against, do you even know?
Your rambling is so incoherent I've said god knows how many times it was misleading we agree I doubt anyone would claim the message on the side of the bus wasn't misleading. Real Tory supporters might claim the Tories are actually fulfilling this claim.anyway as we speak via the increase funding to the NHS which they are.
Well you are the one making a mountain out of them not doing, so if they have delivered the cash boost to the NHS and you know they have, WTF are you on about
Your rambling is so incoherent I've said god knows how many times it was misleading we agree I doubt anyone would claim the message on the side of the bus wasn't misleading. Real Tory supporters might claim the Tories are actually fulfilling this claim.anyway as we speak via the increase funding to the NHS which they are.
Well you are the one making a mountain out of them not doing, so if they have delivered the cash boost to the NHS and you know they have, WTF are you on about
The Tories have delivered lies, deception and propaganda. And their entire Brexit bus thing was based on the above methods.
Good enough reasons to reject any claims made in the first place.
The NHS not only hasn't been boosted with funding but it is so underfunded that it didn't have the protective equipment for the nurses and doctors during the epidemic. And it certainly doesn't have the right amount of doctors and nurses.
Noticed how the Government handled the crisis the last 7-8 months?!
Original post by Lucifer323
And a GDP fall in the short and long term between 10% to 5% i.e on a few simple words poverty and misery for millions of ordinary people who trusted the nonsensical arguments of the leave side and they are the first to pay the very heavy prices of their decision.
The IMF, Treasury and BOE tend to disagree with you here.
They project a relative GDP loss (i.e. slower growth than would otherwise have been the case out to 2030 - but still growth).
Original post by Rakas21
The IMF, Treasury and BOE tend to disagree with you here.
They project a relative GDP loss (i.e. slower growth than would otherwise have been the case out to 2030 - but still growth).
They project a relative GDP loss (i.e. slower growth than would otherwise have been the case out to 2030 - but still growth).
Can you explain me the relative GDP losx and slower growth terms?
You do understand that these are misnomers for precisely what I have deacribed above? The GDP is one very good figure someone can use to make predictions about the economy.
Do you understand what the fall in the GDP or slower growth means in this caes? Millions more in more poverty and misery is the translation.
Original post by Lucifer323
Can you explain me the relative GDP losx and slower growth terms?
You do understand that these are misnomers for precisely what I have deacribed above? The GDP is one very good figure someone can use to make predictions about the economy.
Do you understand what the fall in the GDP or slower growth means in this caes? Millions more in more poverty and misery is the translation.
You do understand that these are misnomers for precisely what I have deacribed above? The GDP is one very good figure someone can use to make predictions about the economy.
Do you understand what the fall in the GDP or slower growth means in this caes? Millions more in more poverty and misery is the translation.
To you later statement no it does not per say (your assuming everybody is on the line).
To answer your question though instead of an actual GDP contraction and increased unemployment, deficit ect.. like the lockdown produced a relative GDP loss is just that, relative over time to previous forecasts.
Essentially when the Treasury forecasts a 6% hit in relative terms from 2018-2030 what it is saying is that average growth will be 1.8% rather than 2.2%. So GDP, incomes, employment all increase, just at a slower rate than they would otherwise.
This is indicative of the impacts of Brexit likely been felt as a slow bleed of lost future investment rather than firms ignoring their sunk costs and closing doors on Jan 1st.
Original post by Rakas21
To you later statement no it does not per say (your assuming everybody is on the line).
To answer your question though instead of an actual GDP contraction and increased unemployment, deficit ect.. like the lockdown produced a relative GDP loss is just that, relative over time to previous forecasts.
Essentially when the Treasury forecasts a 6% hit in relative terms from 2018-2030 what it is saying is that average growth will be 1.8% rather than 2.2%. So GDP, incomes, employment all increase, just at a slower rate than they would otherwise.
This is indicative of the impacts of Brexit likely been felt as a slow bleed of lost future investment rather than firms ignoring their sunk costs and closing doors on Jan 1st.
To answer your question though instead of an actual GDP contraction and increased unemployment, deficit ect.. like the lockdown produced a relative GDP loss is just that, relative over time to previous forecasts.
Essentially when the Treasury forecasts a 6% hit in relative terms from 2018-2030 what it is saying is that average growth will be 1.8% rather than 2.2%. So GDP, incomes, employment all increase, just at a slower rate than they would otherwise.
This is indicative of the impacts of Brexit likely been felt as a slow bleed of lost future investment rather than firms ignoring their sunk costs and closing doors on Jan 1st.
My question was more rhetoric.
I am very well aware of what relative GDP loss is...
The more misery and poverty argument hasn't been addressed properly as I see.
Original post by Rakas21
The IMF, Treasury and BOE tend to disagree with you here.
They project a relative GDP loss (i.e. slower growth than would otherwise have been the case out to 2030 - but still growth).
They project a relative GDP loss (i.e. slower growth than would otherwise have been the case out to 2030 - but still growth).
Well put on this.
Original post by Burton Bridge
God you are hard work, what is it you are arguing against, do you even know?
Your rambling is so incoherent I've said god knows how many times it was misleading we agree I doubt anyone would claim the message on the side of the bus wasn't misleading. Real Tory supporters might claim the Tories are actually fulfilling this claim.anyway as we speak via the increase funding to the NHS which they are.
Well you are the one making a mountain out of them not doing, so if they have delivered the cash boost to the NHS and you know they have, WTF are you on about
Your rambling is so incoherent I've said god knows how many times it was misleading we agree I doubt anyone would claim the message on the side of the bus wasn't misleading. Real Tory supporters might claim the Tories are actually fulfilling this claim.anyway as we speak via the increase funding to the NHS which they are.
Well you are the one making a mountain out of them not doing, so if they have delivered the cash boost to the NHS and you know they have, WTF are you on about
prsom
Original post by Lucifer323
My question was more rhetoric.
I am very well aware of what relative GDP loss is...
The more misery and poverty argument hasn't been addressed properly as I see.
I am very well aware of what relative GDP loss is...
The more misery and poverty argument hasn't been addressed properly as I see.
I can't speak to the increased misery as a majority of the electorate will be very happy on Jan 1st however i can say that additional poverty as a result is unlikely.
Original post by Rakas21
I can't speak to the increased misery as a majority of the electorate will be very happy on Jan 1st however i can say that additional poverty as a result is unlikely.
In fairness, if they don't get the fishing claptrap sorted out the likely mass redundancies at the plant in Grimsby could be an example of poverty.
Original post by Rakas21
I can't speak to the increased misery as a majority of the electorate will be very happy on Jan 1st however i can say that additional poverty as a result is unlikely.
A no-deal Brexit will have the worst consequences regardless of how happy the voters are who voted for Brexit.
The actual GDP loss in such case could be anything between 2-5% in the long term. That will result in further poverty and misery for millions of voters including those who have voted for Brexit.
The Governnent will not have much choice there as to go to a zero-interest situation.
Furthermore it will start to print inflated currency which is well known in the business as quantitative easing. So billions of pounds to be printed out of nothing and hence a devaluation of the pound in relation to the Euro and the Dollar and the Yen.
As a further consequence imports will become highly expensive given the devaluation of the currency and possible restrictions.
Exports will be cheaper. But who is going to buy what from what we are selling? What are we selling and export can you remind me?
As Priti Patel said: Let's take our country back and let's start printing 100 Billions for a starter to show the world how good we are in this business..
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Burton Bridge
He might be looking past the initial period, the problem with a change of this magnitude is risk, it is a risk however the alternative is to be a vassal state of the EU with little to no control over our destiny.
Amazingly, I didn’t take the question as beyond the initial period. I think he was getting at economic damage at all.
Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
Brexit will have a short term impact on the British economy, I'm not denying that.
Can you link me a source?
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
You didn't answer my question about Poland.
We are still a net contributor to the EU and we still have to follow laws made, by and large, by people who do not pay tax in Britain and do not hold British citizenship.
Can you link me a source?
People would absolutely be annoyed if you claimed that Poland has no right to exist.
You didn't answer my question about Poland.
We are still a net contributor to the EU and we still have to follow laws made, by and large, by people who do not pay tax in Britain and do not hold British citizenship.
I cannot believe you are asking for links as to the economic estimates that have been plastered all over the press for years now.
Official UK government figures
Incidentally a double whammy here, showing that Boris’ deal was and is much worse than the one negotiated by May.
I mean, I could go on.
Lastly, just today, MPs warned, and I quote, “Whatever happens now, we will be involved in a day-to-day struggle to ensure the goods that we need to see flowing across our borders.”
Sounds like cracking news for the economy!
Original post by Napp
Annoyed? Yes. Branded a racist on a par with Hitler? No. After all antisemitism is generally considered worse than just being anti any old country and supposedly denying Israel a right to exist falls into that category. Nevertheless, i have still never heard anyone actually give a reason as to why it has a right to exist as, unlike Poland, its an artificial country created by colonial double crossing and, amusingly enough, terrorism. Theres a good reason we tacitly supported the Arabs on independence and thats because of the waves of Jewish terror.
1) you could argue that the current borders of modern-day Poland are an artificial creation too - denying Poland's right to exist based on Nazi tropes is still bigoted.
2) you do know that the Pallies didn't shy away from terror tactics?
Original post by Lucifer323
Was the question in relation to Poland for me? I thought it was for Mr Napp..
Re-state the question as I haven't followed what you were talking about.
The claims about the net comtribition aren't that great as we have already shown in earlier posts.
Re-state the question as I haven't followed what you were talking about.
The claims about the net comtribition aren't that great as we have already shown in earlier posts.
Is saying that Poland has no right to exist and that the rightful inhabitants of Poland are German a bigoted remark?
Original post by Iñigo de Loyola
1) you could argue that the current borders of modern-day Poland are an artificial creation too - denying Poland's right to exist based on Nazi tropes is still bigoted.
2) you do know that the Pallies didn't shy away from terror tactics?
Is saying that Poland has no right to exist and that the rightful inhabitants of Poland are German a bigoted remark?
2) you do know that the Pallies didn't shy away from terror tactics?
Is saying that Poland has no right to exist and that the rightful inhabitants of Poland are German a bigoted remark?
Who claimed such thing?
Obviously Poland has the right to exist and they were heavily damaged by the Germans in the second world war. How many Polish were killed and also Polish Jews ended in concentration camps.
There are of course Germanic people in Poland but that by any means justify the aggression and murdering of so many Polish Citizens and the destruction of ye country.
As a result Poland is now armed to the teeth..
Original post by Lucifer323
Who claimed such thing?
Obviusly Poland has the right to exist and they were heavily damaged by the Germans in the second world war. How many Polish were killed and also Polish Jews ended in concentration camps.
There are of course Germanic people in Poland but that by any means justify the aggression and murdering of so many Polish Citizens and the destruction of ye country.
As a result Poland is now armed to the teeth..
Obviusly Poland has the right to exist and they were heavily damaged by the Germans in the second world war. How many Polish were killed and also Polish Jews ended in concentration camps.
There are of course Germanic people in Poland but that by any means justify the aggression and murdering of so many Polish Citizens and the destruction of ye country.
As a result Poland is now armed to the teeth..
So you admit that it is a bigoted remark then?
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