What good has Sadiq Khan done for London?

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imlikeahermit
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#61
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#61
(Original post by DSilva)
Of course cuts to police funding has a massive impact on preventing violent crime. The fewer police officers you have and the less resources they have, the weaker their ability will be to prevent crime.

Yet you are really rather hesitant to accept thst the huge impact that cuts to the service have had.
And you have completely ignored the fact that when there was less officers crime was lower. Unbelievable.
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DSilva
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#62
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#62
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
And you have completely ignored the fact that when there was less officers crime was lower. Unbelievable.
Nope. Police numbers in 2018 in London were at their lowest levels in 20 years (per 1000 people) . Crime has increased throughout the UK. Police numbers have been cut by 20%.

But apparently 20% cuts to police numbers would be fine provided Khan tweets better...
Last edited by DSilva; 3 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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#63
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#63
(Original post by DSilva)
Nope. Police numbers in 2018 in London were at their lowest levels in 20 years. Crime has increased throughout the UK. Police numbers have been cut by 20%.

But apparently 20% cuts to police numbers would be fine provided Khan tweets better...
Bull****.

2018 .... 31,088
2013 .... 30,398

Can you fathom those numbers or should I break it down more?
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DSilva
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#64
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#64
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Bull****.

2018 .... 31,088
2013 .... 30,398

Can you fathom those numbers or should I break it down more?
2010 there were 4.1 police officers for every 1000 people in London. In 2018 there were 3.3 police officers for every 1000 people in London.

Not only that, but the amount spent on policing fell by 20%.

Indeed 9000 jobs in the police force were cut since 2010.
Last edited by DSilva; 3 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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#65
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#65
(Original post by DSilva)
2010 there were 4.1 police officers for every 1000 people in London. In 2018 there were 3.3 police officers for every 1000 people in London.
You said police numbers, which was incorrect. Police numbers dropped in 2013 and have slowly risen back up.

So now it’s a rising population in London that’s responsible for the rise in crime, not Sadiq?! :rolleyes: Jesus wept man. Time to pack in.
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DSilva
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#66
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#66
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
You said police numbers, which was incorrect. Police numbers dropped in 2013 and have slowly risen back up.

So now it’s a rising population in London that’s responsible for the rise in crime, not Sadiq?! :rolleyes: Jesus wept man. Time to pack in.
No, the police numbers have fallen and police funding has fallen by 20%.https://fullfact.org/crime/police-numbers/

Not only that but since 2010 there were 9000 jobs from the police cut in London (including large amounts of admin and support staff - meaning police officers were far more stretched and under resourced.

You seem to be spectacularly failing to grasp the point that if you massively cut police numbers and cut police funding by 20% that you will see an increase in crime.
Last edited by DSilva; 3 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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#67
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#67
(Original post by DSilva)
No, the police numbers have fallen and police funding has fallen by 20%.

Not only that but since 2010 there were 9000 jobs from the police cut in London (including large amounts of admin and support staff - meaning police officers were far more stretched and under resourced.

You seem to be spectacularly failing to grasp the point that if you massively cut police numbers and cut police funding by 20% that you will see an increase in crime.
You have absolutely no proof that clerical staff being cut has led to an increase in crime. There is absolutely no proof of that.

So, let’s get this straight. It’s everyone else’s fault apart from Sadiq, the actual Mayor of London, that crime has risen? How dare London’s population grow? Since it’s now population changes that have led to increase in crime in London by a third. :rolleyes: I am not failing to grasp anything. You are just making excuses.

FYI, since we’ve been talking today. It’s now 12 people stabbed in 24 hours in our capital. Anything from the Mayor? Not a thing!
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DSilva
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#68
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#68
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
You have absolutely no proof that clerical staff being cut has led to an increase in crime. There is absolutely no proof of that.

So, let’s get this straight. It’s everyone else’s fault apart from Sadiq, the actual Mayor of London, that crime has risen? How dare London’s population grow? Since it’s now population changes that have led to increase in crime in London by a third. :rolleyes: I am not failing to grasp anything. You are just making excuses.

FYI, since we’ve been talking today. It’s now 12 people stabbed in 24 hours in our capital. Anything from the Mayor? Not a thing!
Well it does if it means the police are now having to spend huge amounts of time performing clerical tasks rather than actually fighting crime...

https://fullfact.org/crime/police-numbers/

It's absolutely absurd to claim that cutting police numbers and cutting police resources won't impact on the ability of the police to prevent and fight crime.

Indeed the police themselves have made this point over and over, yet those on the political right have ignored them. Policing is an expensive business, especially in a city like London. And not once have you criticised the Tories for cutting their budgets by 20%.

And obvisouly as cities grow, you need more police officers. Something the Tories have not provided more of...

And once again, you don't stop crime with tweets and rhetoric. You stop it with a well funded and resourced police service - something you seem to be opposing.

I'm all for central govt providing hugely increased funding for police. Are you?
Last edited by DSilva; 3 weeks ago
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imlikeahermit
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#69
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#69
(Original post by DSilva)
https://fullfact.org/crime/police-numbers/

It's absolutely absurd to claim that cutting police numbers and cutting police resources won't impact on the ability of the police to prevent and fight crime.

Indeed the police themselves have made this point over and over, yet those on the political right have ignored them. Policing is an expensive business, especially in a city like London. And not once have you criticised the Tories for cutting their budgets by 20%.

And obvisouly as cities grow, you need more police officers. Something the Tories have not provided more of...

And once again, you don't stop crime with tweets and rhetoric. You stop it with a well funded and resourced police service - something you seem to be opposing.

I'm all for central govt providing hugely increased funding for police. Are you?
Yes, that’s one thing we can agree on. Money needs to be increased to our police, and prison services and officers need to be out on the streets.

However, I don’t think you’re taking my point seriously enough about rhetoric. And maybe that’s because like myself, you have respect for our police for, and wouldn’t be caught up in any crime in the first place. However, some absolute down and outs in our society don’t have that same respect, and the rhetoric from our politicians is so important. That’s why the Dawn Butler case has been so damaging in my eyes. Because she has given people the idea that it is absolutely fine to firstly talk to the police in the way she did, but also to film it all, and have the audacity to act that way.

12 stabbings in 24 hours is horrendous, however, the fact there is not a single word from the mayor is absolutely bizarre.
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DSilva
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#70
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Yes, that’s one thing we can agree on. Money needs to be increased to our police, and prison services and officers need to be out on the streets.

However, I don’t think you’re taking my point seriously enough about rhetoric. And maybe that’s because like myself, you have respect for our police for, and wouldn’t be caught up in any crime in the first place. However, some absolute down and outs in our society don’t have that same respect, and the rhetoric from our politicians is so important. That’s why the Dawn Butler case has been so damaging in my eyes. Because she has given people the idea that it is absolutely fine to firstly talk to the police in the way she did, but also to film it all, and have the audacity to act that way.

12 stabbings in 24 hours is horrendous, however, the fact there is not a single word from the mayor is absolutely bizarre.
You know what really doesn't increase respect for the police?

Cutting their budgets by 20%, their support staff by 9000 and ignoring their warnings about how it will impact their ability to fight and prevent crime.
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imlikeahermit
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#71
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(Original post by DSilva)
You know what really doesn't increase respect for the police?

Cutting their budgets by 20%, their support staff by 9000 and ignoring their warnings about how it will impact their ability to fight and prevent crime.
Jesus wept, I thought we were starting to get somewhere...

Absolutely pointless having a Mayor then if he somehow shoulders no responsibility for what goes on in his city. :rolleyes:
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Rakas21
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#72
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I have to agree with Hermit here, defending Khan is using SNP type logic. The fact is that policing is devolved in London and that he has tax raising powers if he wishes (or he can cut the number of diversity consultants ect..). That he has chosen to stay in line with the rest of UK public spending on police despite having the power to address it (if we believe its down to budget cuts) suggests that he considers it a low priority.
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DSilva
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Rakas21)
I have to agree with Hermit here, defending Khan is using SNP type logic. The fact is that policing is devolved in London and that he has tax raising powers if he wishes (or he can cut the number of diversity consultants ect..). That he has chosen to stay in line with the rest of UK public spending on police despite having the power to address it (if we believe its down to budget cuts) suggests that he considers it a low priority.
He doesn't really have tax raising powers.
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DSilva
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#74
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#74
(Original post by Rakas21)
I have to agree with Hermit here, defending Khan is using SNP type logic. The fact is that policing is devolved in London and that he has tax raising powers if he wishes (or he can cut the number of diversity consultants ect..). That he has chosen to stay in line with the rest of UK public spending on police despite having the power to address it (if we believe its down to budget cuts) suggests that he considers it a low priority.
He doesn't really have tax raising powers. And I see you're peddling the 'diversity consultant' nonsense.

Sorry Rakas, you've consistently defended cuts to the police for the past ten years - despite the police warning us time and time again what the impact would be.

You can't now complain about their performance.
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DSilva
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#75
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#75
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Jesus wept, I thought we were starting to get somewhere...

Absolutely pointless having a Mayor then if he somehow shoulders no responsibility for what goes on in his city. :rolleyes:
Of course he does, but the Tories shoulder far more given they've absolutely cut the service to the bone.
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imlikeahermit
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#76
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(Original post by DSilva)
Of course he does, but the Tories shoulder far more given they've absolutely cut the service to the bone.
Can’t agree. Sadiq has some power, and in the midst of rising crime has still allowed cuts to happen to the police force from his own budget. Suppose though when you bankrupt TfL you’re scraping for every penny you can get.
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DSilva
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#77
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Can’t agree. Sadiq has some power, and in the midst of rising crime has still allowed cuts to happen to the police force from his own budget. Suppose though when you bankrupt TfL you’re scraping for every penny you can get.
No, they were centrally imposed cuts - which is something you don't seem to understand. The mayor of London's budget is largely set by central gov - and if central govt cut police funding by 20% and general funding too, then it has nothing to do with Khan. He can't raise taxes like central govt can.

He didn't bankrupt TFL either - it was the pandemic which caused a 90% drop in passenger numbers.

If you really cared about the issue (rather than just looking for political points) you would be absolutely berating the Tories for the cuts they imposed on the police.
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imlikeahermit
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#78
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(Original post by DSilva)
No, they were centrally imposed cuts - which is something you don't seem to understand. The mayor of London's budget is largely set by central gov - and if central govt cut police funding by 20% and general funding too, then it has nothing to do with Khan. He can't raise taxes like central govt can.

He didn't bankrupt TFL either - it was the pandemic which caused a 90% drop in passenger numbers.

If you really cared about the issue (rather than just looking for political points) you would be absolutely berating the Tories for the cuts they imposed on the police.
Rubbish. The latest round of cuts made by Khan are due to a drop in income tax, not due to government cuts. It is he that is proposing a further £110 million drop in police funding, not the government.

As has already been pointed out to you in this thread London’s budget has increased by 3.6% this year. For the last time, Mr Khan is responsible for the £110million being cut from the met, NOT central government.
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DSilva
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Rubbish. The latest round of cuts made by Khan are due to a drop in income tax, not due to government cuts. It is he that is proposing a further £110 million drop in police funding, not the government.

As has already been pointed out to you in this thread London’s budget has increased by 3.6% this year. For the last time, Mr Khan is responsible for the £110million being cut from the met, NOT central government.
No, the latest cuts are due to the pandemic - which I'm not sure even you can blame Khan for. Now central govt could choose to provide a larger grant to offset this, so why not pressure them to do so rather than blaming Khan?

Khan doesn't have the power to raise taxes. And is thst 3.6% inflation adjusted? And even so - a 3.6% increase following ten years of cuts combined with a pandemic is peanuts.

I'm willing to blame Khan for things he's done badly - but he bears absolutely no responsibility for 10 years worth of cuts to police and local authorities. That lies with the Tories.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by DSilva)
No, the latest cuts are due to the pandemic - which I'm not sure even you can blame Khan for. Now central govt could choose to provide a larger grant to offset this, so why not pressure them to do so rather than blaming Khan?

Khan doesn't have the power to raise taxes. And is thst 3.6% inflation adjusted? And even so - a 3.6% increase following ten years of cuts combined with a pandemic is peanuts.

I'm willing to blame Khan for things he's done badly - but he bears absolutely no responsibility for 10 years worth of cuts to police and local authorities. That lies with the Tories.
The cuts may be due to the ‘pandemic’ however the reason given was due to a fall in council tax. Apologies I said income before, I meant council.

He has and can raise taxes, certainly council tax, which he did just this January.

Secondly, and this is for the last time. Khan is cutting £110 million from the metropolitan police, not the government. Are you struggling with this concept?
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