Black man in Wisconsin remains in hospital after being shot by the police.

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#21
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#21
(Original post by Occitanie)
That's it!

Police don't know you or anything about besides what's been briefed to them. If you start making sudden movements or if you stop listening to them, what do you think they'll be thinking?

That's precisely why police by consent works in the UK.

Point 3:

To recognise always that to secure and maintain the respect and approval of the public means also the securing of the willing co-operation of the public in the task of securing observance of laws.

Point 4:

To recognise always that the extent to which the co-operation of the public can be secured diminishes proportionately the necessity of the use of physical force and compulsion for achieving police objectives.


Something I think the Americans should really consider.
The police are not God, why are they allowed to boss me around or injure me when I haven’t done anything because I’m not interested in what they’re doing? Why is that fair? There must be police by consent.

The police in America are dumb and annoying, I wouldn’t listen to them either on about public co-operation. I’m not trying to die 😂 plenty of ppl get physically assaulted even when complying. Need i remind u of George who was knelt on for minutes ? 🥴
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carlskep
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#22
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Exactly, yes he didn’t follow instructions but the police were called because 2 white women were fighting. Why did they *ignore* the ppl they were called for, focus on the black man trying to be amicable and then shoot him 7 times in the back, now he’s paralysed from the waist down. 💔

They had no right to point guns at him because he didn’t do anything! That is why he got frustrated. He just wanted to leave cuz he didn’t do anything.
(Original post by nathan_nacu)
This is a texas sharpshooter fallacy. Yes he’s dangerous now that we’re aware of these facts but the police very obviously did NOT know all of this when they paralysed this mam
He had an open warrant for his arrest since June or July.
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#23
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(Original post by carlskep)
He had an open warrant for his arrest since June or July.
Texas sharpshooter fallacy, the police were not aware at the moment of the incident and acted on the premise of a regular civilian. Even so he was not posing a threat that required *7 shots* to the back.
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
the police were not aware at the moment of the incident and acted on the premise of a regular civilian
How do you know that?
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QE2
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#25
(Original post by Occitanie)
Are you saying this because you refuse to hear opposing views? Or because you refuse to look at the whole picture?

So in future, refrain from these petty games of one-upping.
So what are you saying? Black man had a record so seven shots in the back is justified?

Same old same old.
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(Original post by 1st superstar)
Tbh I think that it was wrong of him to try and get in the car and avoid the police...
Indeed. Unarmed man walking away from police = 7 shots in the back.
Justice has been served.
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#27
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(Original post by _Wellies_)
Here's a life lesson for you: people in glass houses should not throw stones.
Or walk away from the police.
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#28
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#28
(Original post by QE2)
Indeed. Unarmed man walking away from police = 7 shots in the back.
Justice has been served.
I don't think that the shooting was justified either TBH I hate the USA justice system.
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#29
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#29
(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Exactly, yes he didn’t follow instructions but the police were called because 2 white women were fighting. Why did they *ignore* the ppl they were called for, focus on the black man trying to be amicable and then shoot him 7 times in the back, now he’s paralysed from the waist down. 💔

They had no right to point guns at him because he didn’t do anything! That is why he got frustrated. He just wanted to leave cuz he didn’t do anything.
Paralysed from the waist down (please show me evidence)?!?! The American police are a joke and I hope that all of his medical bills get paid for.
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#30
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They had an arrest warrant for him. There's another angle video that shows him fighting with police, he then goes to his car where they tried to pull him from entering the car. They ended up shooting him.


Now Kenosha is in flames. More riots. What lot of the media refuses to tell you is that these groups "protesting" have been going into neighbourhoods and attacking people some being heavily armed. But there's reports recently that people are fighting back against it which could get ugly.
Last edited by Kuddie; 4 weeks ago
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#31
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
The police are not God, why are they allowed to boss me around or injure me when I haven’t done anything because I’m not interested in what they’re doing? Why is that fair? There must be police by consent.

The police in America are dumb and annoying, I wouldn’t listen to them either on about public co-operation. I’m not trying to die 😂 plenty of ppl get physically assaulted even when complying. Need i remind u of George who was knelt on for minutes ? 🥴
Because while you know that you haven't done anything, we don't. Consider this, we often deal with criminals who lie to us and say they haven't done anything wrong. We couldn't do our jobs properly if we just accepted everyone at their word. I accept it may feel frustrating for a genuinely innocent person to have their claims of innocence appear to fall on deaf ears, but that's how it is. If I'm giving you an instruction, there is a good reason for it. Policing by consent doesn't literally mean that we need your consent to arrest you or search you by the way.
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#32
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(Original post by 1st superstar)
Paralysed from the waist down (please show me evidence)?!?! The American police are a joke and I hope that all of his medical bills get paid for.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5698627

He’s paralysed now because of stupid cops. Why is it that the police are harassing everyone and we have to ‘accept and comply’ but when u trip their ego they maim u in front of ur children. Those children watched their father lose the ability to walk and ppl in this thread are still justifying the matter, why couldn’t they just taser him for f*cks sake. I’m too pissed.
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(Original post by JWatch)
Because while you know that you haven't done anything, we don't. Consider this, we often deal with criminals who lie to us and say they haven't done anything wrong. We couldn't do our jobs properly if we just accepted everyone at their word. I accept it may feel frustrating for a genuinely innocent person to have their claims of innocence appear to fall on deaf ears, but that's how it is. If I'm giving you an instruction, there is a good reason for it. Policing by consent doesn't literally mean that we need your consent to arrest you or search you by the way.
I DONT CARE WHAT U DONT KNOW, JUST DONT MAKE UNEDUCATED GUESSES & LEAVE ME ALONE.

They were called to stop 2 white women fighting and they IGNORED who they were called for and decided to disturb the black man who tried to stop the fight. “That’s how it is” is a load of horseradish sorry. I ain’t accepting that. That excuse is exactly why i hate *all* police, or rather i can NOT trust a cop ever.
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#34
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#34
(Original post by nathan_nacu)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5698627

He’s paralysed now because of stupid cops. Why is it that the police are harassing everyone and we have to ‘accept and comply’ but when u trip their ego they maim u in front of ur children. Those children watched their father lose the ability to walk and ppl in this thread are still justifying the matter, why couldn’t they just taser him for f*cks sake. I’m too pissed.
Thanks for the link
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(Original post by Occitanie)
I'm not afraid of criticism, nor do I cower from it. If I am justifiably criticised, I take it on the chin and move on, and I welcome constructive criticism in all its shapes and forms, as well as intelligent and polite discourse.

What I cannot accept is a pathetic and cowardly sneer whilst avoiding direct and open communication with whomever you're criticising. To then claim 'dishonesty' is bewildering.

If you're willing to push out sneers, you're willing to hear a response.
Hear, hear.
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#36
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
I DONT CARE WHAT U DONT KNOW, JUST DONT MAKE UNEDUCATED GUESSES & LEAVE ME ALONE.

They were called to stop 2 white women fighting and they IGNORED who they were called for and decided to disturb the black man who tried to stop the fight. “That’s how it is” is a load of horseradish sorry. I ain’t accepting that. That excuse is exactly why i hate *all* police, or rather i can NOT trust a cop ever.
Do you actually know for sure it was an uneducated guess? How confident are you that these few seconds of video footage give you the full picture, and have you listened to the officers side of the story? Have you genuinely considered all information in an objective manner, without letting your self confessed distrust and hatred of police officers affect your judgement?

Out of interest if it had been a black officer that shot this man, would you say that you "hate all black people"? If you wouldn't judge all black people because of something a black man did, why is it ok to judge the police on what one officer did either?
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#37
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
Exactly, yes he didn’t follow instructions but the police were called because 2 white women were fighting. Why did they *ignore* the ppl they were called for, focus on the black man trying to be amicable and then shoot him 7 times in the back, now he’s paralysed from the waist down. 💔

They had no right to point guns at him because he didn’t do anything! That is why he got frustrated. He just wanted to leave cuz he didn’t do anything.
I'm not saying that he 'deserved' to be shot but when faced with plods pointing guns at you it is an extremely basic rule that you don't reach into a car of all things. Tragic either way.
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(Original post by JWatch)
Do you actually know for sure it was an uneducated guess? How confident are you that these few seconds of video footage give you the full picture, and have you listened to the officers side of the story? Have you genuinely considered all information in an objective manner, without letting your self confessed distrust and hatred of police officers affect your judgement?

Out of interest if it had been a black officer that shot this man, would you say that you "hate all black people"? If you wouldn't judge all black people because of something a black man did, why is it ok to judge the police on what one officer did either?
There is no justification for shooting an unarmed man *seven* times and paralysing him from the waist down. A taser could’ve been used, I have read multiple sources but there’s not a lot that’s going to do it for me 🥴 i mean you’re a cop, can you make me see that their actions were fair and justified???????

If it had been a black officer my message would still be “i hate all cops” lol, he’s just a black cop? I dislike Cops of Colour too ya know..........
I don’t particularly judge all police on one man’s actions because these incidents aren’t isolated, there is less reason for me to confidently trust them so I don’t. Yes, this isn’t America but my experiences with the police here aren’t very chummy either.
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#39
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(Original post by nathan_nacu)
There is no justification for shooting an unarmed man *seven* times and paralysing him from the waist down. A taser could’ve been used, I have read multiple sources but there’s not a lot that’s going to do it for me 🥴 i mean you’re a cop, can you make me see that their actions were fair and justified???????

If it had been a black officer my message would still be “i hate all cops” lol, he’s just a black cop? I dislike Cops of Colour too ya know..........
I don’t particularly judge all police on one man’s actions because these incidents aren’t isolated, there is less reason for me to confidently trust them so I don’t. Yes, this isn’t America but my experiences with the police here aren’t very chummy either.
The fact he was unarmed is beside the point in this though. As far as police are concerned if someone theyre trying to arrest dives back into a car theres a chance he'll be going for a gun (as frequently happens). As i said, he didn't 'deserve' this fate but saying he was unarmed at the time does not undo the fact he made an extremely poor choice when faced with trigger happy cops - especially in light of recent events.

To really ram home the point though, say you're a cop - a racist one just to make the example really stick - you think blacks are armed, dangerous and violent cop killers. You're arresting one, he suddenly dives into the car where he could be hiding a machine gun for all you know. This is why the 'he was unarmed' argument falls dead here.

You are right in this clearly being over kill, although it can be said he was damn lucky (either them being very good shots or spectacularly bad ones to not kill him), but never the less.
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(Original post by Napp)
The fact he was unarmed is beside the point in this though. As far as police are concerned if someone theyre trying to arrest dives back into a car theres a chance he'll be going for a gun (as frequently happens). As i said, he didn't 'deserve' this fate but saying he was unarmed at the time does not undo the fact he made an extremely poor choice when faced with trigger happy cops - especially in light of recent events.

To really ram home the point though, say you're a cop - a racist one just to make the example really stick - you think blacks are armed, dangerous and violent cop killers. You're arresting one, he suddenly dives into the car where he could be hiding a machine gun for all you know. This is why the 'he was unarmed' argument falls dead here.

You are right in this clearly being over kill, although it can be said he was damn lucky (either them being very good shots or spectacularly bad ones to not kill him), but never the less.
I do actually see your point of view and agree things could’ve gone differently just that in the spur of the moment with adrenaline and everything logic isn’t always at the forefront of the mind. There aren’t many ways to deal with trigger happy cops as they shoot children and say that they thought a pack if skittles was a gun (RIP Trayvon Martin). They are so unpredictable that compliance doesn’t always save u.

I agree with the car bit I just feel like, why did u wait for him to enter the car? They all clearly saw him walking in that general direction and they could’ve easily body tackled him *before* that. I just replay the situation and there was never any need to escalate to a gun. Even if there was, (wasn’t anyway) at least 1 shot alone should’ve been fine.
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