Do you support the BNP? Watch

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Johnny 5
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#101
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#101
The National Union of Students is the embodiment of fascism and communism. They **** off and dismiss the views of any student who does not adhere to their uberlefty trotgimp agenda.
To be honest, most join for the student discounts.

And if they're both fascist and communist, surely that averages out at a happy medium?
technik
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#102
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#102
(Original post by No Future)
From the BNP website:

They criticise the government, calling it a “Blairite regime” and describe how it “echoes…how repressive Communist regimes…” (http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=79)

Then they flip and call Blunkett “the fascist monster that we have long suspected…” (http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=78)

Can someone clarify what they mean here?
Does nobody else find it strange how the government/party members are both “fascist” and “communist” at the same time?
Am I wrong to think that the BNP has no better argument and so just throw around such big, scary words around to arouse fear among the old ladies it targets?
Or do they think the government is so purely wicked that it embodies the full ‘evilness’ of communism and fascism all in one?
And… “Blairite regime”? *raises eyebrows*

“Blunkett has gone! BNP supporters can smile at the news that the man reputedly responsible for the wave of attacks on the British National Party in recent months has been forced to resign following his abuse of power. While fellow Blairite, Frank Dobson, whose son recently converted to the Islamic faith, has been given the task as architect of bringing down the BNP, many of the recent actions, including the arrest of three BNP spokesmen in the past four days would have needed the involvement of the Home Office.” (http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=82)

Why did they feel the need to slip in the little side note about the son converting to Islam? How is that relevant? It’s as if they are trying to put across a negative message associated with Islam and that somehow Islam is connected with the bringing down of the BNP..

“While we are jubilant that the “fascist monster” David Blunkett has this evening resigned in disgrace we are quite rightly disturbed by the appointment of Charles Clarke as his replacement. The current Education Secretary is a career politician who joined the Communist Party when he was studying as a student at Cambridge University. He rose within the ranks of the CP and became president of the National Union of Students in 1977, which in the mid 70s was still closely wedded to the Stalinist regimes of Eastern Europe.”

Again they like using both extremes of fascism and communism...
Oooh – the National Union of Students – feel the evil!
I don’t know a lot of Russian history c 1970, but didn’t Stalin die in 1953?

“So while BNP supporters are smiling at the fall of a man who did so much damage to both the BNP and to the nation as a whole, it is not so reassuring that we have a man to follow in his footsteps who is an admirer of a regime which was so brutal, so violent that between 1932-33, Stalin’s genocidal butchers murdered seven million Ukrainians and throughout the 1920s and 30s in his Great Purge nearly 15 million others, Russians, Poles, Jews and other ethnic groups were massacred in a deliberate holocaust across Russia.”

Also, this was in the 1970s – this guy as part of a student group, was he really a die hard communist and adorer of Stalin? Does it still mean that he is now?

I find it ironic how the BNP refer to holocausts etc, and refer to times when Hitler was beginning to rise. I’m not equating the BNP to Nazis, but some of the views on immigrants do have parallels..
generally fascism is applied to societal and moral stances, while communism is more associated with its economic ideas (down with the capitalists and all that)

i think the term stalinist could be and is applied to all the soviet governments up until the end

the NUS are time wasters, so this is a factual statement
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Howard
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#103
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#103
(Original post by No Future)
Were all of those comments aimed at me?

Yes I did say "recoiled in horror" - though I don't believe I said they had no policies (in fact it is their, in my view RACIST policies that make me recoil in horror), I have visited the website (I read what they say and formed my opinions) - I said that in my first post about the BNP thing in town. I don't think I've said anything stereotypical about BNP supporters, and when there was a local meeting I went to talk to the BNP people to ask them about their policy/views on 'foreign' people. I do no really know much about the BBC's message on the BNP as I have not read in detail the site, or watched the news much.

I have tried to find out more, but the more I read of them (on their site), the more I dislike them and many of their ideas.

I am more concerned with their views that they would not accept immigrants and would support (voluntary) deportation - to keep Britain pure and white. That is why I find them to be racist. Ok so some of their leaders have made racist comments, and maybe leaders of other parties might too, but many other parties do not seem to have such...extreme policies on immigrants, race etc.

How is it 'repatriation' if a black person was born here and has lived and worked in the UK their whole life? If all the immigrants were repatriated then there sure wouldn't be many 'true' British people left....

They are also against mixed race marriages and call the children of these "unfortunate victims"...Does that not strike anyone else as being racist?
No, I wasn't picking on you.
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Cirsium
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#104
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#104
The National Union of Students is the embodiment of fascism and communism.
How can you be the embodiment of extreme right wingism and extreme left wingism? Or is this the circular theorem?
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ThePants999
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#105
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#105
Multiculturalism is a very interesting question in its own right. Personally I can see how a society gains from including a mixture of cultures. But I can also see how an individual culture loses some of its identity and vibrancy when mingled too closely with others. I won't support the BNP because I don't like the idea of a monocultural country, though I can see why some people do. But at the same time I'm concerned that our current "policy" of just letting different cultures mingle and sort themselves out isn't working very well: there's too much tendency for the cultures concerned to separate themselves and form closed communities. I do like the idea that my country can be home to people of other cultures, but I don't like the idea that parts of my country can be barred to people of its indigenous culture. Unfortunately I can't see a solution - I can't see any effective way the government can intervene to make multiculturalism work better. Until a good idea is presented I'll vote for the status quo.

Incidentally, some people are being rather unfair in throwing about the label "racist". The BNP has a lot of racist members, and as a party makes an issue of race, but its policies are not inherently racist. Remember, racists consider other races to be inferior. Specifically:
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
(source: Merriam Webster)

The BNP's policies are not about white superiority - they say simply that people of other races do not belong here. In fact, by extension, their unwritten idea would have to be that we also don't belong in their countries - they don't bother to say that because they're campaigning here, not there. You see, there's nothing about one race or another being "better" - just that each should remain where it started. This may be an abhorrent idea to you - I definitely don't agree with it - but you're going to have to find a word other than "racist" to describe it.
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Johnny 5
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#106
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#106
I certainly am aware of the definition of racism, and although I use it a lot in other arguments, I don't think it fits here: the BNP would not support deportation ("repatriation", sorry) and other policies if they thought that these other races they aim to remove were equal to them, or even superior.
shampagne
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#107
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#107
I certainly am aware of the definition of racism, and although I use it a lot in other arguments, I don't think it fits here: the BNP would not support deportation ("repatriation", sorry) and other policies if they thought that these other races they aim to remove were equal to them, or even superior.
I totally agree with you, there has to be a reason why they don't want other races in 'their' country...
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Howard
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#108
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#108
(Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
I certainly am aware of the definition of racism, and although I use it a lot in other arguments, I don't think it fits here: the BNP would not support deportation ("repatriation", sorry) and other policies if they thought that these other races they aim to remove were equal to them, or even superior.
Not necessarily. It could just be that the BNP opine that the cultural differences between one man and another are too great to span; that has nothing to do with superiority.

Having said that, it is a bit daft to suggest that all races/nations are equal. A quick look at the world around us will tell us that.
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ThePants999
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#109
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#109
Only, Howard, because you're fallaciously equating races with nations. They are separate concepts, and races are equal but nations aren't.

2+2, shampagne - I maintain that, as Howard says, the idea that they don't want other races in our country need not have anything to do with a value judgment on other races. It can simply stem from the idea that cultures do not coexist well and that a society with only one culture is preferable. If you believe that, it naturally follows that each culture should remain within the society in which it originated.
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technik
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#110
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#110
(Original post by Bekaboo)

How can you be the embodiment of extreme right wingism and extreme left wingism? Or is this the circular theorem?
see my post #102
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Howard
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#111
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#111
(Original post by ThePants999)
Only, Howard, because you're fallaciously equating races with nations. They are separate concepts, and races are equal but nations aren't.

2+2, shampagne - I maintain that, as Howard says, the idea that they don't want other races in our country need not have anything to do with a value judgment on other races. It can simply stem from the idea that cultures do not coexist well and that a society with only one culture is preferable. If you believe that, it naturally follows that each culture should remain within the society in which it originated.
And interestingly enough that's not just the BNP's viewpoint. I think you'll find that the head of the CRE recently acknowledged that the multi-cultural experiment was not all it was cracked up to be (though not in those words).
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Howard
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#112
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#112
(Original post by ThePants999)
Only, Howard, because you're fallaciously equating races with nations. They are separate concepts, and races are equal but nations aren't.
You're quite right of course; races and nations aren't the same thing. But, are all races equal? Depends how that concept is measured I guess.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#113
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#113
(Original post by Bekaboo)

How can you be the embodiment of extreme right wingism and extreme left wingism? Or is this the circular theorem?
They're left wing in having left wing policies, and right wing in excluding those that don't conform to their viewpoint. By 'excluding' they don't literally kick people out, but they ignorantly dismiss any right wing views as thoughtless and idiotic.
(Original post by 2 + 2 = 5)
I certainly am aware of the definition of racism, and although I use it a lot in other arguments, I don't think it fits here: the BNP would not support deportation ("repatriation", sorry) and other policies if they thought that these other races they aim to remove were equal to them, or even superior.
No. Like I said, it's because they ideally want monoethnicity across the globe, so Britain for the whites who have lived here for centuries, and similarly Africa for black people, Asia for Asians, etc.
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Bigcnee
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#114
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#114
(Original post by Jools)
Because, the incidence of criminal incidents, particularly muggings and rape, of certain ethnic groups is ridiculously high. And especially when it's first generation immigrants,
evidence? (I genuinely want to know)
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Bigcnee
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#115
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#115
(Original post by Howard)
So, do you base all your opinions on BBC documentaries?

Interestingly, the BBC were going to show a documentary on how Asian youths in some northern towns were grooming underage white girls for fcuk practice. Given your almighty faith in the BBC can I assume you'd have taken that at face value to?
I base my opinions on what I see - so that is a really stupid question.
The Asian Youths (as terrible as these alledged actions are) are not standing for election in British Parliament. So, yet again, that is irrelevant.
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Bigcnee
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#116
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#116
(Original post by Howard)
Really? I didn't think the BNP stood in Eire.
I assume you mean 'The Republic of Ireland'.
To which to answer is: No, but they do stand in Thanet North.
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Howard
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#117
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#117
(Original post by Bigcnee)
evidence? (I genuinely want to know)
Can't be bothered to do your statistical research for you but Judge Keith Simpson and the Head of the Association of Chief Police Officers do seem to believe that immigrants are disproportionately involved in crime.

I suppose you know better than these worthless fops. :rolleyes:

'Immigrant gangs pushing up crime rate'
By Mark Wilkinson, Evening Standard
30 May 2003

A judge has fuelled the controversy over the asylum crisis by speaking out about the impact of illegal immigrants on the crime rate.

Judge Keith Simpson suggested asylum seekers coming to the UK and getting involved in crime had become "all too frequent" and had made things more difficult for honest and genuine seekers of asylum.

He made his comments as he jailed three Romanian women for their involvement in a burglary scam, which netted them thousands of pounds in stolen property and money.

Recommending that they should be deported after their sentences are completed, he said: "Unfortunately this type of activity has become all too frequent since people have come from your country seeking asylum."

Maidstone Crown Court was told that the women were part of a gang who travelled around Kent and other parts of the country committing crimes.

In most cases, a team of up to eight men and women entered a shop, usually with a female shop assistant working alone, and distracted her by walking around and inquiring about prices, while others slipped into another part of the premises to steal.

In one incident, a shopkeeperin Margate was robbed of £3,300 in cash and £7,000 worth of jewellery, plus 20,000 Indian rupees. And in Leicester, the gang walked off with £500 from a private room at the rear of an off-licence.

Lucretta Velcu, 52, who has nine children, and Alina Ciucur, 22, both from Slough, were each jailed for three years, while Rosalihda Chiciu, 23, formerly from Hayes, Middlesex, and now of no fixed address, was jailed for 30 months. They had admitted conspiracy to burgle.

Some of the other Romanians involved in the conspiracy had gone back to their home country, some had been deported and others had simply-disappeared, the court was told.

The judge's comments follow a warning earlier this month from a leading policeman that asylum seekers had brought a wave of organised crime to Britain.

Chris Fox, head of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said: "Mass immigration has brought with it a whole new range and a whole new type of crime. This ranges from the Nigerian fraudster to the Eastern European, who deals in drugs and prostitution, to the Jamaican, concentrating on drug-dealing.

"Gangs see a chance to earn money by getting people into countries without going through all the checks nations require.

"This mass movement brings the opportunity for criminals to move in."
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Howard
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#118
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#118
(Original post by Bigcnee)
I assume you mean 'The Republic of Ireland'.
To which to answer is: No, but they do stand in Thanet North.
I mean Eire or the Republic of Ireland (the country south of Ulster or Northern Ireland) but you can call it whatever fcukin pleases you.
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Bigcnee
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#119
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#119
(Original post by Howard)
Can't be bothered to do your statistical research for you but Judge Keith Simpson and the Head of the Association of Chief Police Officers do seem to believe that immigrants are disproportionately involved in crime.

I suppose you know better than these worthless fops. :rolleyes:

'Immigrant gangs pushing up crime rate'
By Mark Wilkinson, Evening Standard
30 May 2003

A judge has fuelled the controversy over the asylum crisis by speaking out about the impact of illegal immigrants on the crime rate.

Judge Keith Simpson suggested asylum seekers coming to the UK and getting involved in crime had become "all too frequent" and had made things more difficult for honest and genuine seekers of asylum.

He made his comments as he jailed three Romanian women for their involvement in a burglary scam, which netted them thousands of pounds in stolen property and money.

Recommending that they should be deported after their sentences are completed, he said: "Unfortunately this type of activity has become all too frequent since people have come from your country seeking asylum."

Maidstone Crown Court was told that the women were part of a gang who travelled around Kent and other parts of the country committing crimes.

In most cases, a team of up to eight men and women entered a shop, usually with a female shop assistant working alone, and distracted her by walking around and inquiring about prices, while others slipped into another part of the premises to steal.

In one incident, a shopkeeperin Margate was robbed of £3,300 in cash and £7,000 worth of jewellery, plus 20,000 Indian rupees. And in Leicester, the gang walked off with £500 from a private room at the rear of an off-licence.

Lucretta Velcu, 52, who has nine children, and Alina Ciucur, 22, both from Slough, were each jailed for three years, while Rosalihda Chiciu, 23, formerly from Hayes, Middlesex, and now of no fixed address, was jailed for 30 months. They had admitted conspiracy to burgle.

Some of the other Romanians involved in the conspiracy had gone back to their home country, some had been deported and others had simply-disappeared, the court was told.

The judge's comments follow a warning earlier this month from a leading policeman that asylum seekers had brought a wave of organised crime to Britain.

Chris Fox, head of the Association of Chief Police Officers, said: "Mass immigration has brought with it a whole new range and a whole new type of crime. This ranges from the Nigerian fraudster to the Eastern European, who deals in drugs and prostitution, to the Jamaican, concentrating on drug-dealing.

"Gangs see a chance to earn money by getting people into countries without going through all the checks nations require.

"This mass movement brings the opportunity for criminals to move in."
Right. This "all to frequent" thing is kind of redundant without actual statistics. Thanks for the effort though.
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Howard
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#120
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#120
(Original post by Bigcnee)
I base my opinions on what I see - so that is a really stupid question.
The Asian Youths (as terrible as these alledged actions are) are not standing for election in British Parliament. So, yet again, that is irrelevant.
You're the one that said 'I don't know how anybody could support them after two BBC documentaries" (or words to that effect)

Clearly you consider everyone else so dim-witted that they can only rely on Aunty for information while you yourself base your opinions on what you see. Sure. I'm sure you have tons of experience and a real inside scoop on the BNP. :rolleyes:
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