17 year old charged with homicide during riots in America

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Napp
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An interesting move charging him with murder, given from the videos he appeared to be defending himself from a mob? Should be an interesting case to follow to see what other facts emerge though.


A 17-year-old was arrested and charged with homicide on Wednesday in connection with gunfire that killed two people and wounded a third during protests over the police shooting of a Black man in Kenosha, Wisconsin, officials said.
The lakeside city of Kenosha has been rocked by civil unrest since Sunday, when police shot Jacob Blake, 29, in the back at close range. The incident, captured on video, has reignited protests over racism and police use of force in the United States.

The third night of protests in the city of 100,000 between Milwaukee and Chicago erupted in gunfire shortly before midnight, prompting some elected officials to call for a reinforcement of National Guard troops or the deployment of federal law enforcement officers.
Republican President Donald Trump on Wednesday said had spoken with Democratic Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers, who had agreed to accept US law enforcement support.
"TODAY, I will be sending federal law enforcement and the National Guard to Kenosha, WI to restore LAW and ORDER!" Trump wrote on Twitter, without elaborating.
The violence coincided with the second night of the Republican National Convention, in which Trump has made "law and order" crackdowns on protest violence a campaign theme.
The suspect was identified as Kyle Rittenhouse, 17, who was arrested on a warrant in Illinois and charged with first-degree intentional homicide in Kenosha, a Lake County court official said.


Police in Antioch, Illinois, confirmed a 17-year-old had been arrested in connection with the Kenosha gunfire and was being held by the Lake County judicial system.
The first two nights of protests in Kenosha were overtaken by outbreaks of vandalism and arson that destroyed several businesses. On the third night it turned deadly.
It was unclear what set off the gunfire, but the streets of Kenosha were teeming with a combustible mix of protesters and armed militia members, who had been guarding local businesses.
"What it seems to be is a member of a militia group who decided to be a vigilante and take the law into his own hands and mow down innocent protesters," Wisconsin Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes told MSNBC television on Wednesday before the arrest was reported.
Video on social media showed the shooter was a white man with a rifle. Rittenhouse's now-deleted Facebook page shows him posing with another young man, both of them holding rifles. The photo is encircled by a Blue Lives Matter badge in support of police.
Social media videos capture much of the overnight violence, but not the initial confrontation involving the gunman. The videos show a crowd chasing the gunman, believing he had shot another man.
The gunman then falls to the ground where he comes under attack, but he fires a number of rounds, appearing to hit a man in the torso, who falls to the ground, and seriously wounding another man in the arm.
As the crowd disperses around him, the man walks freely down the street, his hands in the air and his rifle hanging in front of him.
He walks past several police vehicles, which drive by without stopping him.
Kenosha police said in a statement that two people had died and a third gunshot victim was taken to a hospital with serious injuries, though he was expected to live. They pleaded for witnesses to come forward, asking for additional video or photos beyond those posted on social media.
Anti-racism protesters also clashed with police in Portland, Oregon, and Louisville, Kentucky, on Tuesday night, part of a wave of national protests that have continued since the May 25 death of George Floyd, a Black man who died after a white Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck.
The Kenosha Guard, which identifies itself on Facebook as a local militia, had posted a message warning police they would be out on the streets.
"We are unaware if the armed citizen was answering the Kenosha Guard Militia's call to arms," the group later posted on Facebook.
In Sunday's shooting, Blake was hit by four of seven shots fired and left paralyzed, his family and lawyers said.
Blake underwent another round of surgery on Tuesday to stabilize his spine with rods and screws, Patrick Salvi Sr., a lawyer for Blake's family, told CNN on Wednesday.
Salvi also said Kenosha officials have been "tight-lipped" about their investigation into the shooting, depriving the family of the police officers' version of what happened.
The Wisconsin Department of Justice is leading the investigation and has yet to provide details. Kenosha police have referred all queries to that agency.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world...-protests.html
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anarchism101
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(Original post by Napp)
An interesting move charging him with murder, given from the videos he appeared to be defending himself from a mob? Should be an interesting case to follow to see what other facts emerge though.
The explanation given is that the crowd was chasing him because he'd just shot someone else. But even if we ignore that, he might have an argument against first-degree murder, but second-degree murder or voluntary manslaughter would be harder to get out of, because it's not just about the immediate seconds and minutes around the killings, but the circumstances of why and how he was there. Rittenhouse didn't legally own the gun, and he is not from Kenosha. He illegally carried a gun across state lines into a city and subsequently wandered around carrying it, past curfew time, interacted with a load of other dudes also out on the streets after curfew carrying guns, and then engaged with protesters he would have known full well would regard him as hostile. In other words, he was there looking for a fight, with malicious intent, even if the killings/assaults caught on video don't look premeditated (though have seen some cite his wearing latex gloves as evidence that he planned on something and didn't want his fingerprints on the gun).

Or think of it this way: imagine he'd done something like this in the UK, or another Western democracy where gun laws are far stricter than in the US. "Self-defence" as an excuse would be regarded as laughable; his mere presence there, openly carrying a loaded rifle in a way that suggested he anticipated potentially firing it, without any reasonable excuse for any element of it, would likely be regarded as inherently threatening to anyone around him, and people mobbing him to try to get the gun out of his hands would likely be considered their reasonable self-defence.

The difference in the US, of course, is that guns are more normalised and so there is much less of an assumption that someone simply having a loaded gun in your vicinity is inherently threatening. But as I said, he had the gun illegally, and was voluntarily there after curfew, so in principle there shouldn't be much legal difference.
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Napp
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(Original post by anarchism101)
The explanation given is that the crowd was chasing him because he'd just shot someone else. But even if we ignore that, he might have an argument against first-degree murder, but second-degree murder or voluntary manslaughter would be harder to get out of, because it's not just about the immediate seconds and minutes around the killings, but the circumstances of why and how he was there. Rittenhouse didn't legally own the gun, and he is not from Kenosha. He illegally carried a gun across state lines into a city and subsequently wandered around carrying it, past curfew time, interacted with a load of other dudes also out on the streets after curfew carrying guns, and then engaged with protesters he would have known full well would regard him as hostile. In other words, he was there looking for a fight, with malicious intent, even if the killings/assaults caught on video don't look premeditated (though have seen some cite his wearing latex gloves as evidence that he planned on something and didn't want his fingerprints on the gun).

Or think of it this way: imagine he'd done something like this in the UK, or another Western democracy where gun laws are far stricter than in the US. "Self-defence" as an excuse would be regarded as laughable; his mere presence there, openly carrying a loaded rifle in a way that suggested he anticipated potentially firing it, without any reasonable excuse for any element of it, would likely be regarded as inherently threatening to anyone around him, and people mobbing him to try to get the gun out of his hands would likely be considered their reasonable self-defence.

The difference in the US, of course, is that guns are more normalised and so there is much less of an assumption that someone simply having a loaded gun in your vicinity is inherently threatening. But as I said, he had the gun illegally, and was voluntarily there after curfew, so in principle there shouldn't be much legal difference.
That does somewhat clash with the video evidence of him being chased by an armed mob though, one clearly holding a glock (if i find a way to post the video i will but its on a private insta story at present). I cant really comment on on the allegations that he'd just randomly shot someone earlier but to go solely on the video thats been posted he seems well within his rights to shoot his attempted lynchers. 'Intent' of stirring up trouble aside thats generally no reason for an armed group to try and kill him in the first place.

In fairness, you're perfectly allowed to shoot someone in Europe and Britain in self defence it just requires a hell of a lot of justification, if we ignore the incomparability of the stories (walking the streets armed) if someone with a gun broke into your house and tried to kill you theres nothing inherently wrong with defending yourself there. Although, as said, the laws do make it very hard to draw an accurate comparison.
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Napp
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(Original post by benyse)
I could shoot you and provide a lot of justification.
Oh tingtox, get a life. Dreadfully pathetic little person.
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Occitanie
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He committed the crime of crossing state lines with a gun...

What a lovely world we live in... :rolleyes:
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(Original post by Occitanie)
He committed the crime of crossing state lines with a gun...

What a lovely world we live in... :rolleyes:
Is that the only crime he committed?
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Occitanie
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(Original post by Ascend)
Is that the only crime he committed?
No, it isn't, of course it isn't. I just wanted to add what else he committed.

On another note, there was some unrest in Minneapolis last night: demonstrations, looting, assaults. I just came across a pretty gruesome video on Twitter a minute ago. At first glance, it looked like the police had shot a defenceless and unarmed black make near a doorway to a mall or office... turns out he shot himself in the head and the police are later seen to try and resuscitate him. The gun is visible.

I hate being so pessimistic, but I think the US is heading towards absolute meltdown.
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Occitanie
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Occitanie
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Turns out he might even be a murder suspect.

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1298863185307619328

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Napp
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(Original post by Occitanie)
Turns out he might even be a murder suspect.

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1298863185307619328

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I presume this is a different chap from the one in the article??
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Occitanie
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(Original post by Napp)
I presume this is a different chap from the one in the article??
Then the OP article? Yes, he is.

The video of him taking his own life was on my Twitter feed earlier on this morning.

Consequently, there is some looting.

https://twitter.com/courtneygodfrey/...08654716698625
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Napp
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(Original post by Occitanie)
Then the OP article? Yes, he is.

The video of him taking his own life was on my Twitter feed earlier on this morning.

Consequently, there is some looting.

https://twitter.com/courtneygodfrey/...08654716698625
Ah yes sorry just double checking
Yeah i heard about this one, people somehow blaming the police for it as well *sigh*.
Ah always back to the looting. And yet people are still supporting that outragous scam that pays their bail for them to go back out and petrol bomb peoples property and officers.. America really is in a rough spot.
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Ramipril
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(Original post by Occitanie)
I hate being so pessimistic, but I think the US is heading towards absolute meltdown.
Got any predictions when? I'm thinking post-election will definitely be a **** show
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(Original post by Occitanie)
I hate being so pessimistic, but I think the US is heading towards absolute meltdown.
(Original post by Ramipril)
Got any predictions when? I'm thinking post-election will definitely be a **** show
The majority of Americans are way too comfortable to want any sort of dismantling of their system. This will blow over as it has many times before.
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Napp
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(Original post by Ascend)
The majority of Americans are way too comfortable to want any sort of dismantling of their system. This will blow over as it has many times before.
Probably but if it starts feeding into Trumps brand of crazies then it could be an issue after all hordes of armed men stalking the streets can not to much spark an inferno as a detonation in how it escalates. Culture wars being the basis of civil wars in many regards.
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DiddyDec
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I'm honestly shocked something like this hasn't happened sooner.
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(Original post by Ramipril)
Got any predictions when? I'm thinking post-election will definitely be a **** show
Yeah, that’s when I think **** will really hit the fan, especially if Trump wins.
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To be honest for a country awash with guns and four years of political street violence, I'm amazed it's taken until 2020 for this to happen.
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OshiriTantei
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Saw this coming weeks ago we have seen people becoming more extreme like that girl shot for saying ALM. Both parties need to call for peace and condemn violence but we wont see that from Democrats "Get out and protest" is the only thing they're willing to see and not the ugly side while their held cities are on fire. People are starting to fight back and this is sadly the result.

Last couple of weeks there's been more heavily armed protesters while before it was just largely brick and fireworks throwing. Now they're going through peoples neighbourhoods and people are scared of them rather then seeing them as good guys.
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Captain Haddock
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(Original post by Napp)
That does somewhat clash with the video evidence of him being chased by an armed mob though, one clearly holding a glock (if i find a way to post the video i will but its on a private insta story at present). I cant really comment on on the allegations that he'd just randomly shot someone earlier but to go solely on the video thats been posted he seems well within his rights to shoot his attempted lynchers. 'Intent' of stirring up trouble aside thats generally no reason for an armed group to try and kill him in the first place.

In fairness, you're perfectly allowed to shoot someone in Europe and Britain in self defence it just requires a hell of a lot of justification, if we ignore the incomparability of the stories (walking the streets armed) if someone with a gun broke into your house and tried to kill you theres nothing inherently wrong with defending yourself there. Although, as said, the laws do make it very hard to draw an accurate comparison.
There's video of the first shooting - basically a guy is chasing the shooter for unknown reasons, throws a plastic bag at him then gets shot in the head. It's ambiguous enough that it won't settle any online debates but ultimately it's for the courts to decide now.

There's still the question of why the police were seemingly encouraging and possibly even coordinating with a ragtag bunch of untrained, heavily armed teenagers - post curfew - in an extremely volatile situation.
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