Anyone start core surgical training late?

As in pretty damn late!

So, quick background. During medical school I wanted to be an orthopaedic surgeon. Also wanted to do this through most of F1 and F2 and loved my orthopaedic job as an F2. But I basically really struggled to sleep on nights so decided that I would do GP instead. There were all sorts of reasons nights were an issue for me, but basically that shouldn't be the case any more.

While I certainly do not hate GP, ortho is still the only thing I have loved. Am I nuts for considering trying to apply for CST after I complete GP training? I am 29 now. All being well I will complete GP training Feb 2022 aged 31 and would be looking to apply to CST in Nov 2022 (would need to bolster CV with some kind of new surgical experience between Feb and Nov) and so would be CT1 aged 32 in Aug 2023... with an MRCGP, which all seems a bit daft to write down, but there you go, that's what I am considering.

Just wondering if there is anyone that has had an experience or been close to someone coming to surgical training a bit later.

My wife started CST at age 34 and a fair few of her colleagues from graduate entry medicine entered surgical training older than that - so let age not be an issue. I agree with the above re: start beefing up the CV now. There's also no reason you couldn't sit MRCS part A if you were really motivated. Consider applying for an anatomy demonstrator job in the 6 months between finishing your GP programme and starting CST, although there are also a reasonable number of surgical JCF jobs around if you look.

Bonne chance

thanks for that, I am not sure I have worked closely with any CTs that kind of age so just wanted to hear/see it I think!

As to the others saying to apply now. It has occurred, but there are big pros and cons. I am over half way through training and have passed one of the two exams. I think that in the grand scheme of things another 17 months to CCT is probably worth it in order to have a back up (I really don't hate GP at all), you never know what life will throw up and surgery is very competitive obviously. Plus I need to actually do a fair few nights to make sure it still isn't a big issue. I'd feel a right plonker if I decided surgery wasn't for me after all and I didn't have GP to fall back on! And my family wouldn't thank me.

I am going to be directing my CV in that direction for sure, a good QIP and some leadership, plus MRCS part A ideally.

Speaking to the supervisor is a bit of a weird one to be honest, he has to train me for a good while and the dynamic might hurt my training if he knew I was not likely to work as a GP at the end of it.

thanks for that, I am not sure I have worked closely with any CTs that kind of age so just wanted to hear/see it I think!

As to the others saying to apply now. It has occurred, but there are big pros and cons. I am over half way through training and have passed one of the two exams. I think that in the grand scheme of things another 17 months to CCT is probably worth it in order to have a back up (I really don't hate GP at all), you never know what life will throw up and surgery is very competitive obviously. Plus I need to actually do a fair few nights to make sure it still isn't a big issue. I'd feel a right plonker if I decided surgery wasn't for me after all and I didn't have GP to fall back on! And my family wouldn't thank me.

I am going to be directing my CV in that direction for sure, a good QIP and some leadership, plus MRCS part A ideally.

Speaking to the supervisor is a bit of a weird one to be honest, he has to train me for a good while and the dynamic might hurt my training if he knew I was not likely to work as a GP at the end of it.

thanks for that, I am not sure I have worked closely with any CTs that kind of age so just wanted to hear/see it I think!

As to the others saying to apply now. It has occurred, but there are big pros and cons. I am over half way through training and have passed one of the two exams. I think that in the grand scheme of things another 17 months to CCT is probably worth it in order to have a back up (I really don't hate GP at all), you never know what life will throw up and surgery is very competitive obviously. Plus I need to actually do a fair few nights to make sure it still isn't a big issue. I'd feel a right plonker if I decided surgery wasn't for me after all and I didn't have GP to fall back on! And my family wouldn't thank me.

I am going to be directing my CV in that direction for sure, a good QIP and some leadership, plus MRCS part A ideally.

Speaking to the supervisor is a bit of a weird one to be honest, he has to train me for a good while and the dynamic might hurt my training if he knew I was not likely to work as a GP at the end of it.

I was in a similar position to you except with medicine, not surgery. My situation is slightly different in that I really did hate GP though.

If you are enjoying your GP training and don't mind finishing it, I would say finish it and then apply. As you say, it will be something to fall back on if things don't work out with surgery, and you may decide that ortho is really not for you when you are actually doing the training.

I quit GP after ST2. The advantage for me was that it meant I did not have to pay for exams, and also meant not getting deskilled during ST3 (whilst GP training does train you up to be a GP, you do get deskilled at things like practical procedures, managing medical emergencies, interpreting imaging and so on - or at least I felt like I that was the case for me in the year I spent away from doing acute medicine). It was also the right decision for me from a mental health point of view. I am a few years older than the average person at my grade but it's really not an issue - plenty of people do medicine as graduates and I know a couple of F1s who are even older than me!

As for the issue of nights, I only speak as someone who did ortho as an F1 and worked in A&E in a busy DGH, but orthopaedic registrars are really not very busy on nights in my experience

Are you doing IMT now? What do you aim to do eventually?

As in pretty damn late!

So, quick background. During medical school I wanted to be an orthopaedic surgeon. Also wanted to do this through most of F1 and F2 and loved my orthopaedic job as an F2. But I basically really struggled to sleep on nights so decided that I would do GP instead. There were all sorts of reasons nights were an issue for me, but basically that shouldn't be the case any more.

While I certainly do not hate GP, ortho is still the only thing I have loved. Am I nuts for considering trying to apply for CST after I complete GP training? I am 29 now. All being well I will complete GP training Feb 2022 aged 31 and would be looking to apply to CST in Nov 2022 (would need to bolster CV with some kind of new surgical experience between Feb and Nov) and so would be CT1 aged 32 in Aug 2023... with an MRCGP, which all seems a bit daft to write down, but there you go, that's what I am considering.

Just wondering if there is anyone that has had an experience or been close to someone coming to surgical training a bit later.