CO-OP makes fool of itself over trans rights

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generallee
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#81
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#81
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Unless Stop Funding Hate are trying to lobby the government into, say, making anti-trans journalism illegal then this has nothing to do with freedom of the press.
I don't accept your definition of the Freedom of the Press. The term doesn't just reflect independence from Government interference. It means the freedom of newspapers to express their opinion in the wider society.

The recent Extinction Rebellion attack on the Times and Sun is a good recent example of it being attacked. An entire print run of both papers was pulped on Saturday, a classic case of press freedom being destroyed. Nothing to do with the Government per se, although you could argue that the police should have one a better job in arresting the agitators and allowing the presses to print.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by generallee)
I don't accept your definition of the Freedom of the Press. The term doesn't just reflect independence from Government interference. It means the freedom of newspapers to express their opinion in the wider society.
In that case you don't understand the terminology you're using.

Even going by your definition, what Stop Funding Hate had tried to do was not an issue of freedom of the press. Nothing Stop Funding Hate can do, save for lobbying for legislation, can stop The Spectator (or any other paper) from expressing their opinion to a wider society.
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SHallowvale
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#83
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(Original post by generallee)
I said "quasi commie." They are mostly hard line Corbynistas apparently. That makes sense, having failed to take over Her Majesty's Official Opposition they have to find something to fill their days.
My bad. What makes them "quasi commie", then?
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TCA2b
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@ the OP

Well deserved!

As for these lefty organisations, the ones with "hate" in them tend to be populated by the most hateful individuals you'll find, which is funny.
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generallee
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
In that case you don't understand the terminology you're using.

Even going by your definition, what Stop Funding Hate had tried to do was not an issue of freedom of the press. Nothing Stop Funding Hate can do, save for lobbying for legislation, can stop The Spectator (or any other paper) from expressing their opinion to a wider society.
They are attempting to destroy the freedom of the press to publish articles they deem to be "transphobic" by threatening advertising boycotts. Whether they will succeed in that aim is another question which I will come to in a moment.

It is just another front in the culture war. Progressives use every weapon they can to stifle free expression. Hate crime legislation, as you mention, the threat of getting fired or not getting work if like Laurence Fox you are a self employed actor, or no longer getting your books published if you are David Starkey. They are in the shut up business. Of stopping prominent people saying what they (really) think, how can this be doubted?

It isn't so much the egregious examples I cited, pleasurable though it is to destroy their careers, no doubt, but the example it sets, THAT is the point behind it all. These high profile turning of celebrities into non persons are punishment beatings to make sure no-one else says what can't be said. Easier to nor say anything than to contradict the progressive narrative.

If that is your aim, to ensure that no-one dare expresses any disagreement with your ideological dogma, every weapon that comes to hand should be utilised because the ends justify the means. So we see this latest idea, pressuring companies to withdraw advertising. You can see the logic, but will it work?

Pleasingly it seems not, so far at least. Andrew Neal tweeted yesterday that there has been a surge in Spectator subscriptions since this campaign hit social media. And corporate boycotting of a Fox News show in the US has led to it having amongst the highest ratings of not just a cable news show, but any show on television.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/b...s-ratings.html
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by generallee)
They are attempting to destroy the freedom of the press to publish articles they deem to be "transphobic" by threatening advertising boycotts. Whether they will succeed in that aim is another question which I will come to in a moment.
So your definition of "free press" essentially boils down to whether it's financially viable for a paper to exist?

If this is the case, why should anyone care about it? As has been pointed out before, no paper is entitled to anyone else's money and nor should they be. If anything, based on this 'financially dependent' definition of free press, free press never existed to begin with for private companies.
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generallee
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#87
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(Original post by TCA2b)
@ the OP

Well deserved!

As for these lefty organisations, the ones with "hate" in them tend to be populated by the most hateful individuals you'll find, which is funny.
Absolutely!

You used a good word there in hateful. I had always thought it meant someone who ought to be hated, who deserves it, but I just looked it up and it also means someone themselves filled with hate, in the sense I think you were using. You learn something every day, and all that.

So the word is appropriate for these lefties in both senses. They are deserving of our complete contempt and disgust, whilst (ironically considering their name) being hate filled themselves...

Hypocrisy is ever present with the left. It is always do as we say not how we do. You must stop "funding" hate, whilst we wallow in it.
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by TCA2b)
@ the OP

Well deserved!

As for these lefty organisations, the ones with "hate" in them tend to be populated by the most hateful individuals you'll find, which is funny.
(Original post by generallee)
Absolutely!

You used a good word there in hateful. I had always thought it meant someone who ought to be hated, who deserves it, but I just looked it up and it also means someone themselves filled with hate, in the sense I think you were using. You learn something every day, and all that.

So the word is appropriate for these lefties in both senses. They are deserving of our complete contempt and disgust, whilst (ironically considering their name) being hate filled themselves...

Hypocrisy is ever present with the left. It is always do as we say not how we do. You must stop "funding" hate, whilst we wallow in it.
True.

Anti-fa is a great example of this problem. They are the biggest fascists on the face of this Earth.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
Anti-fa is a great example of this problem. They are the biggest fascists on the face of this Earth.
You're kidding, right?
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TCA2b
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No, no "kidding" involved. They're just butthurt authoritarian commies and "anarchists" who glorify violence and seethe with hatred towards groups they're encouraged to despise by their handlers. So they are not just a great example of it - they're an excellent one. Sorry if that describes you to a tee, as I imagine it probably does. But not really sorry.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by TCA2b)
No, no "kidding" involved. They're just butthurt authoritarian commies and "anarchists" who glorify violence and seethe with hatred towards groups they're encouraged to despise by their handlers. So they are not just a great example of it - they're an excellent one. Sorry if that describes you to a tee, as I imagine it probably does. But not really sorry.
My remark was on the comment that anti-fa are "the biggest fascists on the face of this Earth".

And no, what you've written does not describe me.
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Pinkisk
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
My remark was on the comment that anti-fa are "the biggest fascists on the face of this Earth".

And no, what you've written does not describe me.
You intentionally treat a comment intended to be a hyperbole as one intended to be an accurate representation of reality, in an effort to find a flaw in an otherwise flawless argument. You do this in defence of a leftist extremist group that pursues totalitarianism, a fundamental principle of fascism, through force, violence, death and destruction. So, what he wrote does actually describe you very well.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Pinkisk)
You intentionally treat a comment intended to be a hyperbole as one intended to be an accurate representation of reality, in an effort to find a flaw in an otherwise flawless argument. You do this in defence of a leftist extremist group that pursues totalitarianism, a fundamental principle of fascism, through force, violence, death and destruction. So, what he wrote does actually describe you very well.
I was not sure whether to take your comment seriously so I asked "You're kidding, right?". If it were just hyperbole a simple "no" would have sufficed.

You've both branded me as a supporter of violence, death, destruction, hatred and anarchism. I support none of those things, all I did was ask if a comment you made was a serious one.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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I wouldn't say that Antifa are fascists but there are a lot of parallels between Antifa and the BUF or Antifa and Mussolini's regime.

(edit - wrong word)
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Kitten in boots
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This thread is depressing.

It is just people with an unhealthy fixation with identity politics arguing over one another.

Get off the internet for a bit and get down the pub with your friends. You'll quickly discover how utterly irrelevant these topics are to the vast majority of the population.
Last edited by Kitten in boots; 2 weeks ago
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JWatch
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(Original post by Kitten in boots)
This thread is depressing.

It is just people with an unhealthy fixation with identity politics arguing over one another.

Get off the internet for a bit and get down the pub with your friends (if you have any). You'll quickly discover how utterly irrelevant these topics are to the vast majority of the population.
I agree. There seems to be a lot of unnecessary arguing over gender stuff right now and I just shake my head and think what is the point? I don't agree that non binary gender is a thing, to me you are either born a man or a woman. I could spend forever shouting at anyone who thinks differently, and I'm sure others could spend forever screaming at me for not agreeing with them. But you know what, life is too short for petty bickering. At the end of the day, while I may not agree that you are a non binary gender, I will still treat you with respect provided you reciprocate that respect. Let's just try being civil to each other instead of having to constantly argue over the stuff we don't agree on?
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generallee
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(Original post by Kitten in boots)
This thread is depressing.

It is just people with an unhealthy fixation with identity politics arguing over one another.

Get off the internet for a bit and get down the pub with your friends (if you have any). You'll quickly discover how utterly irrelevant these topics are to the vast majority of the population.
You could day the same thing about the whole of TSR. Unless you are specifically asking a question of someone who know the answer, all time on here is pretty much wasted. Maybe it IS depressing that we don't spend our time more productively.

Although I don't know if time spent drinking down the pub with friends is that much better a use of one's short life. I tell you what I'll take you for a drink if you like.

(Just kidding before you say how boring that would be for you, you couldn't think of anything worse, ya de ya de ya).
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generallee
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(Original post by JWatch)
I agree. There seems to be a lot of unnecessary arguing over gender stuff right now and I just shake my head and think what is the point? I don't agree that non binary gender is a thing, to me you are either born a man or a woman. I could spend forever shouting at anyone who thinks differently, and I'm sure others could spend forever screaming at me for not agreeing with them. But you know what, life is too short for petty bickering. At the end of the day, while I may not agree that you are a non binary gender, I will still treat you with respect provided you reciprocate that respect. Let's just try being civil to each other instead of having to constantly argue over the stuff we don't agree on?
My argument is not about whether gender is a social construct or not but that we can't even discuss the subject if we are public figures. (Being not, we can of course). The SJW's are the ones on the offensive here, they are the ones trying to stop discussion of the subject, at universities and in publications like the Spectator.

Those of us who believe in Free Speech can either ignore the provocation, or respond to it. My proposition is that most people can't be bothered, so the Progressives are driving the agenda. Every year the Overton Window of that which can be debated gets smaller and smaller. THAT is something that I find profoundly depressing.
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