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Guardian University League Table 2021

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Original post by bored_user:)
So what is the guardian measuring?

Teaching specific measures at a department/subject level. Specifically performance in those measures relative to the top performing university in that subject.
Here is the methodology for those who are interested - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/05/methodology-behind-the-guardian-university-guide-2021
Original post by _gcx
I'll copy what I said in the previous thread:



I don't think it's a huge deal universities being ranked 10th instead of 15th, etc. but stuff like this bothers me.

The guardian has a lower weighting on NSS results in their subject tables (which form the overall ranking) (and includes fewer questions) than either the Times or the Complete.
Original post by bored_user:)
So what is the guardian measuring?


The methodology is here - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/05/methodology-behind-the-guardian-university-guide-2021
Reply 84
Avatar for 161BMW
161BMW
17
Surprised Bristol is so highly rated for engineering. I knew it was decent but thought it was about same as Bath.
Original post by PQ
The guardian has a lower weighting on NSS results in their subject tables (which form the overall ranking) (and includes fewer questions) than either the Times or the Complete.

That's interesting - I thought that was the main thing responsible for the odd placements, weird how they turn out so differently.
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DimT
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12
Also: poor Surrey... Went up to #4 in 2016, stayed #4 in 2017 and now it's down to #54. They must have changed something in methodology or the university really f*cked it up.

It was however the flavor of the week - undoubtedly had it's 15 minutes of fame... :biggrin:
Nottingham fell a lot this year :frown:
Original post by _gcx
That's interesting - I thought that was the main thing responsible for the odd placements, weird how they turn out so differently.

The methodology for this year is here if you are interested https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/05/methodology-behind-the-guardian-university-guide-2021
Original post by _gcx
That's interesting - I thought that was the main thing responsible for the odd placements, weird how they turn out so differently.

The main differences are the way the overall ranking is a product of all the subject rankings (which means a lot more data used in the subject rankings by the guardian) and the exclusion by the guardian of REF2014 research quality scores (the argument being that if high quality research has a positive impact on teaching then that will be evident from the teaching focused measures so including research scores too is double counting where research benefits teaching and giving a misleading boost to departments where the good results in the REF didn’t result in any improvement in the teaching measures).
Original post by Sentenced_to
Also: poor Surrey... Went up to #4 in 2016, stayed #4 in 2017 and now it's down to #54. They must have changed something in methodology or the university really f*cked it up.

It was however the flavor of the week - undoubtedly had it's 15 minutes of fame... :biggrin:

they changed VC about 5 years ago from one who had top 10 league tables in their top priorities to one who was more interested in keeping their staff happy.
Original post by PQ
The main differences are the way the overall ranking is a product of all the subject rankings (which means a lot more data used in the subject rankings by the guardian) and the exclusion by the guardian of REF2014 research quality scores (the argument being that if high quality research has a positive impact on teaching then that will be evident from the teaching focused measures so including research scores too is double counting where research benefits teaching and giving a misleading boost to departments where the good results in the REF didn’t result in any improvement in the teaching measures).

This doesn't appear to be a strange way of ranking unis. Why do so many people dismiss the Guardian one?
Original post by royalty1702
aight so ask any sane person. For maths, which do you think is better

Lincoln OR Imperial/Warwick

Lincoln, obviously :rolleyes:

Of all the league tables nonsense, the Guardian is the most nonsensical
Original post by harrysbar
Lincoln, obviously :rolleyes:

Of all the league tables nonsense, the Guardian is the most nonsensical

Can I ask why?
Original post by Lightning720
This doesn't appear to be a strange way of ranking unis. Why do so many people dismiss the Guardian one?

Because the results don’t match preconceptions of prestige and because the methodology (and exclusion of a heavily weighted and unchanging research measure from 2008-2014) means that more movement year on year is to be expected.
Original post by Lightning720
I will be starting at St Andrews very soon.

no wonder you love the guardian's league table!
Original post by Lightning720
Can I ask why?

So many examples of ridiculous outcomes that no one believes in the real world such as the example already given by @royalty1702 of Lincoln coming out higher for Maths than Imperial
Original post by harrysbar
So many examples of ridiculous outcomes that no one believes in the real world such as the example already given by @royalty1702 of Lincoln coming out higher for Maths than Imperial

the dude is only defending the league table because his uni is in 2nd place.
Original post by royalty1702
no wonder you love the guardian's league table!

It's third in the other UK ones...

And I haven't said I love any league table.
Original post by royalty1702
the dude is only defending the league table because his uni is in 2nd place.

I mean if you look at what I've actually said you will know that isn't the case.

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