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_gcx
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
In reality they sell by making PC look expensive and complicated, which is a widely held view among the "casuals" anyway
Increasingly less so though - the market is steadily growing. No idea how much of a dent these new consoles will put in it. (any dent would be pretty temporary with the new generation of graphics cards)
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Jammy Duel
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#62
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#62
(Original post by quasa)
looks better than xbox (console and games)
Fanboy detected.

On the hardware side of things Xbox is quite obviously the superior, especially when looking at the value side of things. On the games, Sony has the better exclusive line up but it is quite possible that the power of gamepass offsets that heavily.

At those price points if Microsoft don't mess up the XSS marketing (they already have by making a big deal about TFLOPs for XSX) XSS will outsell digital PS5 by a moderate margin which comfortably outsells XSX which outsells PS5 with optical drive
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quasa
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#63
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#63
(Original post by _gcx)
Increasingly less so though - the market is steadily growing. No idea how much of a dent these new consoles will put in it. (any dent would be pretty temporary with the new generation of graphics cards)
complicated, no. expensive, yes. same cost to build your own decent gaming rig is more than what I spent on my pc, mobile, tablet and what I will spend on a ps5
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Jammy Duel
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#64
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#64
(Original post by _gcx)
Increasingly less so though - the market is steadily growing. No idea how much of a dent these new consoles will put in it. (any dent would be pretty temporary with the new generation of graphics cards)
And the 3090 nicely gives ammo to the prohibitively expensive side of things.
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Jammy Duel
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#65
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#65
(Original post by _gcx)
pretty much - unless they want to match up to Steam sales it's never going to be a good idea to go 100% digital on console.
Which they won't because there won't be the competition
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quasa
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Fanboy detected.

On the hardware side of things Xbox is quite obviously the superior, especially when looking at the value side of things. On the games, Sony has the better exclusive line up but it is quite possible that the power of gamepass offsets that heavily.

At those price points if Microsoft don't mess up the XSS marketing (they already have by making a big deal about TFLOPs for XSX) XSS will outsell digital PS5 by a moderate margin which comfortably outsells XSX which outsells PS5 with optical drive
really, you seem like you belong in the master race (by which I mean the generally accepted term for pc gamers). Ill openly admit I like sony but happy to criticise them as well . personally I love halo and forza and enjoy a lot of microsoft products but dont want to get an xbox as the games will also be out on pc
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quasa
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
And the 3090 nicely gives ammo to the prohibitively expensive side of things.
so does the 3080 and 3070. 3070's price is laughable as it is similar speed to the series x's gpu
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Jammy Duel
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#68
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#68
(Original post by quasa)
complicated, no. expensive, yes. same cost to build your own decent gaming rig is more than what I spent on my pc, mobile, tablet and what I will spend on a ps5
You are demonstrating the point.

Can PC compensate with PS5/XSX for up front cost right now? No, you're looking at $1000 to match, longer term though that price difference starts to come back, not least because on PC you aren't paying just to be able to play online and you can far more readily get games cheap.

But then give it 2 years and that will cease to be a thing, 4000 series comes out and suddenly you will be able to get a 3070 for less on the used market, used across the board and you might be looking at $600 and that $100 difference between that PC and the consoles is an irrelevance, 2 years of PSN eliminates that.

Of course it isn't even as simple as that because the $500 cost for a console isn't entirely accurate because you probably have a laptop or something to use as a PC which suddenly means the $1000 PC isn't competing with the $500 console but a $500 console plus a cheap $200 laptop so the price difference is only $300 or 5 years of PSN or one steam sale (although admittedly consoles are getting better when it comes to sales)
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quasa
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
You are demonstrating the point.

Can PC compensate with PS5/XSX for up front cost right now? No, you're looking at $1000 to match, longer term though that price difference starts to come back, not least because on PC you aren't paying just to be able to play online and you can far more readily get games cheap.

But then give it 2 years and that will cease to be a thing, 4000 series comes out and suddenly you will be able to get a 3070 for less on the used market, used across the board and you might be looking at $600 and that $100 difference between that PC and the consoles is an irrelevance, 2 years of PSN eliminates that.

Of course it isn't even as simple as that because the $500 cost for a console isn't entirely accurate because you probably have a laptop or something to use as a PC which suddenly means the $1000 PC isn't competing with the $500 console but a $500 console plus a cheap $200 laptop so the price difference is only $300 or 5 years of PSN or one steam sale (although admittedly consoles are getting better when it comes to sales)
my laptop is a surfacebook 2 which I got for £800 courtesy of a contact who works for microsoft (which for a late 2017 /early 2018 laptop has an overclocked i7-8650u and a full desktop (none of that max-q crap) 6gb 1060 gtx, as well as a samsung m.2 ssd. discuss how it is a £170 laptop? ps5 is £450, so £1250. my mobile was £250 (its a pixel 3a).

for a decent pc (to my specs anyways), id be spending more money than what I paid for all of that.
Last edited by quasa; 1 week ago
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Jammy Duel
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#70
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#70
(Original post by quasa)
really, you seem like you belong in the master race (by which I mean the generally accepted term for pc gamers). Ill openly admit I like sony but happy to criticise them as well . personally I love halo and forza and enjoy a lot of microsoft products but dont want to get an xbox as the games will also be out on pc
You mean like an ever increasing number of PS5 games?

I wouldn't say it is a generally accepted term, but I won't hide the fact that I plan to throw £650 nvidia's way tomorrow if I get in earlier enough for the 50% performance uplift. I don't particularly care for either console over the other, although if I were to get one it would probably be the digital PS5, but it does not change the fact that from the perspective of anything that means anything (that means not aesthetics) neither headline console is particularly better or worse than the other. But on the hardware side as a whole microsoft have a clear edge in that they are not disabling old controllers, if an input device works on Xbone era hardware it works on Series hardware and these are little things that boost the value proposition for Xbox, far more than PSVR will any time soon.

As for the games lineup I don't think either can be said to be definitively better than the other, Sony has the stronger new exclusive line up but then Xbox has the whole game pass and whatever origin access is called these days available from day 1. Xbox will be able to boast a massive library including the legendary game that is Goat Simulator. $25/35 per month for 2 years to get a console and that massive library makes a compelling offer.
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quasa
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
You mean like an ever increasing number of PS5 games?

I wouldn't say it is a generally accepted term, but I won't hide the fact that I plan to throw £650 nvidia's way tomorrow if I get in earlier enough for the 50% performance uplift. I don't particularly care for either console over the other, although if I were to get one it would probably be the digital PS5, but it does not change the fact that from the perspective of anything that means anything (that means not aesthetics) neither headline console is particularly better or worse than the other. But on the hardware side as a whole microsoft have a clear edge in that they are not disabling old controllers, if an input device works on Xbone era hardware it works on Series hardware and these are little things that boost the value proposition for Xbox, far more than PSVR will any time soon.

As for the games lineup I don't think either can be said to be definitively better than the other, Sony has the stronger new exclusive line up but then Xbox has the whole game pass and whatever origin access is called these days available from day 1. Xbox will be able to boast a massive library including the legendary game that is Goat Simulator. $25/35 per month for 2 years to get a console and that massive library makes a compelling offer.
ill admit the subscription service for microsoft owns sony's but also agreed sony has the better lineup. personally i dont get the whole need for tribalism and feel people should enjoy gaming on whatever system they want. if i want a microsoft game, ill use my laptop. if i want to play playstation, il use playstation
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Jammy Duel
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#72
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#72
Looking at the Spiderman in the first scene it does look like there is ray tracing, on the bridge I'm not so sure, but there also isn't anything which can easily be used to judge. It might be that they selectively use it so in the slower paced sequences have ray tracing on to make it look better, but in the more demanding sections either disable it or have a much lesser implementation to avoid or minimise the performance hit, especially when you couple it with the scene being faster paced so you're less likely to really notice.

Having another closer look at CoD that definitely looks like it is facing the same problems as Halo Infinite graphically, albeit not quite as bad. It seems to only have a 1080p upload too which is interesting, given how bad it looks it should certainly be able to run at the 4k30 required, even with ray tracing and then even if the AMD implementation is *really* inefficient.
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Jammy Duel
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#73
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#73
(Original post by quasa)
ill admit the subscription service for microsoft owns sony's but also agreed sony has the better lineup. personally i dont get the whole need for tribalism and feel people should enjoy gaming on whatever system they want. if i want a microsoft game, ill use my laptop. if i want to play playstation, il use playstation
(Original post by quasa)
my laptop is a surfacebook 2 which I got for £800 courtesy of a contact who works for microsoft (which for a late 2017 /early 2018 laptop has an overclocked i7-8650u and a full desktop (none of that max-q crap) 6gb 1060 gtx, as well as a samsung m.2 ssd. discuss how it is a £170 laptop? ps5 is £450, so £1250. my mobile was £250 (its a pixel 3a).

for a decent pc (to my specs anyways), id be spending more money than what I paid for all of that.
May as well tackle the two together, the $200 laptop business is not dealing with you specifically but your more generic consumer that, if anything, is looking at a cheap does the basics laptop. If they can afford the upfront cost of a half decent PC (which they can if they are willing to put the effort into properly dealing in the second hand market) the cost argument isn't really there unless they're looking at going far more casual and XSS sort of route.

As for tribalism, I'd rather have open minded and informed consumers but if it's the price of good competition, especially now both M$ and Sony have recognised that PC represents a major market largely isolated from the consoles meaning I win however the console wars go, so be it.
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