Bouncers make me think Social Credit would be a good idea

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AngusKing
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For any negative criticism SC gets. Provided you don't want to misbehave. Then the small things like not waiting for a green man to cross the road when there are no cars, well I'm sure a small good act would cancel that out.

Right now a bouncer can be prejudiced, Decide he doesn't like you and hey, you're not getting in. No reason, you've done nothing, you wouldn't cause trouble if you went in. You complain, the manager gives a standard letter about why they didn't need a reason, claims that the bouncer as polite at all times, (I'm guessing they define polite as aggressive and disrespectful) and says they don't see a problem. What if we had Social Credit and you could maintain a good score. Can't be that hard. Can they actually justify turning you away if you have a good score and are highly unlikely to cause trouble. Not only because I would already have a good reputation as being unlikely to do anything but because I'd want to maintain that. I start a bar fight, I get thrown out and I lose points, lost that reputation.

Then if it was like that episode of Black Mirror where individual people can vote you down. Hey, for some reason bouncers don't like large groups of guys. Anyone whose worked with large groups of customers knows that a single troublemaker can be more trouble than a group of people who behave. Anyway, group of ten guys approach, no ill intentions, turning them away for no reason could result in 10 down votes.
Though individuals voting could be a problem based on opinions. I used to work in an arcade. I had a guy making a false claim that he'd won something. He wouldn't accept that if you don't win you don't get the prize. I told him the manager would be in at 6 that day. He said, "No I want it sorted now." In that case do I downvote him for a false claim? Does he downvote me for not opening the machine and givng him a prize he told me he'd won.
Or do we just both take a downvote?
So I don't really know if everyone should have the power to up or downvote.

Sounding biased against bouncers, it would also help them in a way. Ok, they couldn't be prejudiced like some are now if a person had a high score. But a low score would also help them decide who ACTUALLY should be turned away. So just like it would be hard to justify turning a person with a good score away it would be easy to justify turning a person with a bad score away. Say if it ranged from -5 to 5, you have a score of -3.2? Yeah you'll probably get turned away. They wouldn't be able to discriminate but they would be able to tell who not to let in.

So yeah, provided you aren't a trouble maker a reasonable SC score shouldn't be too hard to maintain. Then if you make a mistake you can counter the deduction with a good act. And a person can't be prejudiced just because they don't like your face.

At first I thought SC would be a bad thing but the more I think about t the better it seems
Last edited by AngusKing; 1 month ago
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DiddyDec
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Did Black Mirror teach you nothing?
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AngusKing
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Did Black Mirror teach you nothing?
Well to be fair, the Black Mirror clearly biased towards the Right Wing.
Social Credit would encourage people to behave and reduce discrimination.
Though if you have reasons to believe it would be a bad thing, a bit more than asking me if a conservative propaganda show has taught me nothing would be required to change my mind.
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CollettIn21
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Well to be fair, the Black Mirror clearly biased towards the Right Wing.
Social Credit would encourage people to behave and reduce discrimination.
Though if you have reasons to believe it would be a bad thing, a bit more than asking me if a conservative propaganda show has taught me nothing would be required to change my mind.
But you won't get them to behave, you will just make people appear to behave. People will just do enough to tick boxes and the causes of discrimination in the first place won't be tackled. Great for virtual signalling thots though.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Well to be fair, the Black Mirror clearly biased towards the Right Wing.
Social Credit would encourage people to behave and reduce discrimination.
Though if you have reasons to believe it would be a bad thing, a bit more than asking me if a conservative propaganda show has taught me nothing would be required to change my mind.
Are you calling Charlie Brooker, Guardian commentator right wing? :lol:
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AngusKing
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(Original post by CollettIn21)
But you won't get them to behave, you will just make people appear to behave. People will just do enough to tick boxes and the causes of discrimination in the first place won't be tackled. Great for virtual signalling thots though.
Do you mean kind of the, if you are forced to be good and didn't choose to then you aren't truly good as you didn't choose not to be bad?
As for acting good to tick the boxes remember it goes both ways.
Saying you ACT like a saint to tick the boxes. Say if somebody decides they want a bar fight, tick the boxes to get into the club, soon as the fists start flying their SC goes down. They get thrown out, their SC goes down. I think it would encourage people to carry on behaving.
Say I approach a club, the bouncer stops me, "Sorry, you can't go in, your score is 2. We require 2.5 or above."
OK, I know why I'm not allowed in. I leave less disgruntled than I would currently when the bouncer just turns you away if he doesn't like your face. I leave, behave for a few days, Get my score up. Bouncer doesn't stop me next time I visit. Wouldn't I now be less likely to cause trouble because I don't want to lose any of my acquired privileges?
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AngusKing
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So I took the online test
https://abcfinance.co.uk/blog/surviv...-credit-score/
https://abcfinance.co.uk/social-credit-quiz/index.html
I answered honestly, managed to get 625, good to excellent. I know that I spend a bit much time on video games, I wouldn't stop being friends with a friend based on them having a low score. So I answered honestly knowing it would be bad for my score in the test. It really doesn't seem that bad unless a person wants to be bad.
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Surnia
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Can the system include losing credit for going on about the same topic and making multiple threads on TSR?

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...efused%20entry
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AngusKing
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(Original post by Surnia)
Can the system include losing credit for going on about the same topic and making multiple threads on TSR?

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...efused%20entry
This one is more about Social Credit. How it would prevent people discriminating against and judging you using night club bouncers an as example.
TSR?
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Napp
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Well to be fair, the Black Mirror clearly biased towards the Right Wing.
Social Credit would encourage people to behave and reduce discrimination.
Though if you have reasons to believe it would be a bad thing, a bit more than asking me if a conservative propaganda show has taught me nothing would be required to change my mind.
Thats really touching that you believe that
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AngusKing
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(Original post by Napp)
Thats really touching that you believe that
Well, if somebody has a high score how could it be justified to turn them away just because you don't like their face? Then if they misbehave the high score goes down. If you look into it the privileges and penalties are quite significant. So a good score would be something you would want to obtain and keep.
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Napp
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Well, if somebody has a high score how could it be justified to turn them away just because you don't like their face? Then if they misbehave the high score goes down. If you look into it the privileges and penalties are quite significant. So a good score would be something you would want to obtain and keep.
I presume this is in the same vein of logic that dictates laws will make stop people doing bad things, financial incentives can be used to guide society to a brighter tomorrow and that humans are inherently rationale beings?
Alas these things have been definitively shown to be bunk. Not only do people tend to resent social conditioning but humans are inherently complex beings to start with and don't overly fit into these neat little boxes.
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TheStupidMoon
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Right now a bouncer can be prejudiced, Decide he doesn't like you and hey, you're not getting in. No reason, you've done nothing, you wouldn't cause trouble if you went in. You complain, the manager gives a standard letter about why they didn't need a reason, claims that the bouncer as polite at all times, (I'm guessing they define polite as aggressive and disrespectful) and says they don't see a problem.
What happens if the bouncers orders are coming from the local authority?
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AngusKing
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I suppose one way to look at Social Credit, as long as you don't intend to do bad acts, it shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.
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Wōden
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My biggest issue and fear with 'social credit' is that it would be no reliable measure of somebody's true moral character, it's simply a measure of how good they are at unquestioningly following rules, or worse still that they are capable of gaming the system and projecting a fake air of 'niceness'. This point was hammered home hard in Black Mirror, where many of the characters with high scores were anything but good people underneath their carefully crafted veneers, whilst many of the low scorers, the brother, the truck driver etc, were decent people.

(Original post by AngusKing)
Well to be fair, the Black Mirror clearly biased towards the Right Wing.
Social Credit would encourage people to behave and reduce discrimination.
Though if you have reasons to believe it would be a bad thing, a bit more than asking me if a conservative propaganda show has taught me nothing would be required to change my mind.
Nonsense, if anything it would increase discrimination to new extremes, as it would effectively be creating a rigid new caste system. No, I find the whole idea of social credit nightmarish. I don't believe the measure of a human's moral worth can or should be reduced down to a score crunched out by some algorithm that monitors everything we do. It's thoroughly un-natural and human behavoir/psychology is just too complex to quantify in such a manner. Nobody is perfect, we all have good and bad days, we all make mistakes, we aren't always rational, we all say or do stupid things in the heat of the moment from time to time, we all have disagreements, etc etc. I'd rather not see such a radical alteration in the social fabric of civilistion, just to make it easier for you to get into bars. And if I may give a word of advice on that issue, if you're routinely getting refused entry into venues, maybe it's not the bouncers who are the problem and maybe you need to look a bit closer to home...
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AngusKing
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(Original post by Wōden)
And if I may give a word of advice on that issue, if you're routinely getting refused entry into venues, maybe it's not the bouncers who are the problem and maybe you need to look a bit closer to home...
Its one guy who took a disliking to me for no reason. That's not my fault.

As I said, the Black Mirror was clearly biased towards conservative propaganda. We can't base whether Social Credit is good or bad based on that episode.
If we look at how it really works in China, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGB8dCDf3c doesn't seem so bad.
It's not just bouncers anyway. People who like to play with that bit of authority they have would no longer be able to it would be on the numbers. Yes, everyone can have a bad day, but you can make up for it and raise the score back up.
Does it really matter if a person is doing a good act to get points or f they are genuinely good? There was the example in the video of the man who helped a drunk person get home. maybe he'd have done it anyway, maybe not. Whether he did it because he genuinely wanted to help or for the points the outcome was the same. A person got home safely.
It actually seems better if points are there. Say if somebody here carries a drunk person home, good deed, the right thing to do but they won't be rewarded, they won't be renowned. If that same person commits a crime they will be punished, fined, in the media.With social credit if you commit a good act thee are benefits to it. It rewards good behaviour as much as it punishes bad.

From the video, I don't think SC works like the Black Mirror episode where everyone is able to vote you as they see fit. As I said, Right Wing Propaganda.
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Napp
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Its one guy who took a disliking to me for no reason. That's not my fault.

As I said, the Black Mirror was clearly biased towards conservative propaganda. We can't base whether Social Credit is good or bad based on that episode.
If we look at how it really works in China, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cGB8dCDf3c doesn't seem so bad.
It's not just bouncers anyway. People who like to play with that bit of authority they have would no longer be able to it would be on the numbers. Yes, everyone can have a bad day, but you can make up for it and raise the score back up.
Does it really matter if a person is doing a good act to get points or f they are genuinely good? There was the example in the video of the man who helped a drunk person get home. maybe he'd have done it anyway, maybe not. Whether he did it because he genuinely wanted to help or for the points the outcome was the same. A person got home safely.
It actually seems better if points are there. Say if somebody here carries a drunk person home, good deed, the right thing to do but they won't be rewarded, they won't be renowned. If that same person commits a crime they will be punished, fined, in the media.With social credit if you commit a good act thee are benefits to it. It rewards good behaviour as much as it punishes bad.

From the video, I don't think SC works like the Black Mirror episode where everyone is able to vote you as they see fit. As I said, Right Wing Propaganda.
This is the first time ive heard someone praising China's model here as anything other than an offensive invasion of privacy and tool to obliterate rights.
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AngusKing
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(Original post by Napp)
This is the first time ive heard someone praising China's model here as anything other than an offensive invasion of privacy and tool to obliterate rights.
Now the 1st, 2nd, 3rd,
From the video I posted, 0:56 3:56 they praise the system.
That's the thing, it doesn't just punish bad behaviour, it rewards good. With a good score people get discounts.
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Napp
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(Original post by AngusKing)
Now the 1st, 2nd, 3rd,
From the video I posted, 0:56 3:56 they praise the system.
That's the thing, it doesn't just punish bad behaviour, it rewards good. With a good score people get discounts.
I more meant people in the west who dont depend on brown nosing the system for their survival...
They also get to boast about having zero agency it seems. Then again you dont really have people in China, merely possessions of the state for it to use as they see fit.
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Theloniouss
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How old are you? It seems like you've thought about this for a couple of seconds with respect to boun[c]ers and then decided that it should apply to all of society.
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