I think my dad supports honour killings....

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Anonymous #1
#21
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#21
(Original post by OxFossil)
This organisation has advice and a helpline. I've no experience with it myself, but it is funded by reputable organisations. Might be good to talk it over anonymously?

https://www.haloproject.org.uk/
Thank you so much
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londonmyst
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#22
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#22
I volunteer helping to support the survivors of honour abuse, forced marriage and sexual violence to rebuild their lives.
All different religions, nationalities, castes and tribes.
So many men & women still agree with aggression, izzat and the violent punishment of their own descendants & relatives who disobey them or refuse to continue with their favourite traditions.
My mother was almost beaten to death by her father and his horrendous mother.
Eleven of my parent's friends survived violent honour abuse attacks that has left permanent injuries, visible scars and agonising pain.

Always trust your gut instinct and listen to what your feelings are telling you.
Keep your wits about you and quietly make plans to escape before uni.
Choose your career ambitions, study to obtain the best possible a levels that you can and offers from as many uni's far away from where your parents live.
Try to save as much money and make as many friends with a spare room or sofa as you possibly can.
There are several charities that can offer you free specialised advice and support.
Good luck!
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Anonymous #1
#23
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#23
(Original post by londonmyst)
I volunteer helping to support the survivors of honour abuse, forced marriage and sexual violence to rebuild their lives.
All different religions, nationalities, castes and tribes.
So many men & women still agree with aggression, izzat and the violent punishment of their own descendants & relatives who disobey them or refuse to continue with their favourite traditions.
My mother was almost beaten to death by her father and his horrendous mother.
Eleven of my parent's friends survived violent honour abuse attacks that has left permanent injuries, visible scars and agonising pain.

Always trust your gut instinct and listen to what your feelings are telling you.
Keep your wits about you and quietly make plans to escape before uni.
Choose your career ambitions, study to obtain the best possible a levels that you can and offers from as many uni's far away from where your parents live.
Try to save as much money and make as many friends with a spare room or sofa as you possibly can.
There are several charities that can offer you free specialised advice and support.
Good luck!
thank you!! not only for the advice but also for volunteering and helping others!
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londonmyst
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#24
(Original post by Anonymous)
thank you!! not only for the advice but also for volunteering and helping others!
You're welcome.
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Anonymous #2
#25
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#25
(Original post by onceuponatime1)
I am sorry but there is no reason for her to need permission to move out. All of us of age are independent and self-determining, and so her parents should not be required to "be happy" about her decisions. Bear in mind that I am not having a go at you at all; I just believe that she should focus on herself as opposed to being oppressed and making choices that fit her parents' vision.
I do get what you mean, but at the same time I'm speaking about a small minority of south asians parents who may not feel 100% comfortable with their children moving out for university, regardless of how old they are. I have some friends who are in the same situation (not about honour killings, but about being given permission to move out by themselves). It's really difficult to understand, but all I can say is that it's part of a culture - I agree with you in that we should be independent and not have to rely on our parents, but at the same time I'm just bringing up the fact that culture (especially south asian culture) would play a huge part in if she would even be able to move out, certain parents from this culture really don't agree with the whole "moving out by yourself" even if you're of age, and I just don't want her to be reliant on this idea and it not falling through.
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Anonymous #2
#26
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#26
(Original post by Anonymous)
Yes my family are muslim and Pakistani and I know they won't be happy with me moving out for uni. But its the only chance I can see myself escaping with.

I dont think taking my dad to an islamic scholar will change his mind.. he will most likely pretend to agree with the scholar so he is seen as good but then in reality his mind won't change if that makes sense. I feel like he'll do this because he always acts different to people who are not a part of our family so they get the impression he is a good person but then at home talks bad about a lot of things

Thank you for the advice
I understand what you're saying about your dad, that is common for a lot of people.. but I guess it's worth a try..?

That's what I mean, I would really advise you to think this through as if you are dependant on this idea and it falls through then it would put you in an even worse position. If you are looking to do this, I would honestly advise you to start saving up already - if you're planning on moving out without them knowing, then start moving essentials like clothes into a storage area (maybe a storage locker..?). Instead of spending money on luxuries like eating out, save as much as you can - if they have access to your current bank account, try to open another one without them knowing and start to put money into there.

I really hope this works out for you, no girl should feel worried about something like this x
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Anonymous #4
#27
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#27
In the meantime before you go to university, if there is no way you can move out, just make sure to get on with your parents. Keep your distance from them but ensure that you don't say too many things that they might disagree with, just to stay safe. For example, you don't want an arranged marriage but don't mention that.

If I'm being honest, I don't think you need to be scared. In the UK we have prevention methods to stop this. If you actually think something will happen it is imperative that you go to the police and they will help you. Also, maybe he agrees with honour killings in South Asia but not over here?
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onceuponatime1
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Anonymous)
In the meantime before you go to university, if there is no way you can move out, just make sure to get on with your parents. Keep your distance from them but ensure that you don't say too many things that they might disagree with, just to stay safe. For example, you don't want an arranged marriage but don't mention that.

If I'm being honest, I don't think you need to be scared. In the UK we have prevention methods to stop this. If you actually think something will happen it is imperative that you go to the police and they will help you. Also, maybe he agrees with honour killings in South Asia but not over here?
How can you agree with honour killings in South Asia and then not agree on it here? If you agree with honour killings, you agree with the concept, irrespective of the place it is occuring at. Morality is universal, or at least, it should be. The fact that her dad agrees with it means he outright agrees with it, regardless of the place it happens. Also, if he were to say that he agrees with it in a specific country, we would then need to question that. Why is that the case? We are all humans, and so just because another country has a law in place, does not mean it is morally justified.
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Anonymous #2
#29
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#29
(Original post by onceuponatime1)
How can you agree with honour killings in South Asia and then not agree on it here? If you agree with honour killings, you agree with the concept, irrespective of the place it is occuring at. Morality is universal, or at least, it should be. The fact that her dad agrees with it means he outright agrees with it, regardless of the place it happens. Also, if he were to say that he agrees with it in a specific country, we would then need to question that. Why is that the case? We are all humans, and so just because another country has a law in place, does not mean it is morally justified.
I agree with you in that honour killings are in no way okay, and her dad shouldn't agree with it at all.

I think her idea of him believing it in one country and not another is because of the normalisation of the concept in that specific country.. honour killings have become so common in Pakistan, especially because of the fact that there is a lack of action taken against people who do carry them out, so people feel that they can easily get away with it.

Another (less drastic) example of something like this would be my dad's opinion on the niqab (a face covering). When we took a trip to Saudi Arabia, we saw many women wearing the face covering to hide themselves - my dad made it clear that in a country like Saudi, it's okay to wear something like that because it is so normalised, whereas if women were to wear it somewhere like the UK, he can understand why people feel quite uncomfortable with the concept because it's something so foreign to them.

I honestly think the believing in it comes down to culture - so many south asians are okay with the idea of it in a south asian country because it is so normalised there. They may act like they don't believe in it in a place like the UK in hopes of fitting in, and not trying to display their extreme views, but deep down are okay with it.

Hope this helped x
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Anonymous #4
#30
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#30
(Original post by onceuponatime1)
How can you agree with honour killings in South Asia and then not agree on it here? If you agree with honour killings, you agree with the concept, irrespective of the place it is occuring at. Morality is universal, or at least, it should be. The fact that her dad agrees with it means he outright agrees with it, regardless of the place it happens. Also, if he were to say that he agrees with it in a specific country, we would then need to question that. Why is that the case? We are all humans, and so just because another country has a law in place, does not mean it is morally justified.
I just want to make it clear that I don't agree with honour killings in the absolute slightest and anyone who does makes me sick.
(Original post by Anonymous)
I agree with you in that honour killings are in no way okay, and her dad shouldn't agree with it at all.

I think her idea of him believing it in one country and not another is because of the normalisation of the concept in that specific country.. honour killings have become so common in Pakistan, especially because of the fact that there is a lack of action taken against people who do carry them out, so people feel that they can easily get away with it.

Another (less drastic) example of something like this would be my dad's opinion on the niqab (a face covering). When we took a trip to Saudi Arabia, we saw many women wearing the face covering to hide themselves - my dad made it clear that in a country like Saudi, it's okay to wear something like that because it is so normalised, whereas if women were to wear it somewhere like the UK, he can understand why people feel quite uncomfortable with the concept because it's something so foreign to them.

I honestly think the believing in it comes down to culture - so many south asians are okay with the idea of it in a south asian country because it is so normalised there. They may act like they don't believe in it in a place like the UK in hopes of fitting in, and not trying to display their extreme views, but deep down are okay with it.

Hope this helped x
I don't even need to reply to this comment because Anon 2 did it for me! This is exactly what I mean, thank you for explaining so well!
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onceuponatime1
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#31
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I just want to make it clear that I don't agree with honour killings in the absolute slightest and anyone who does makes me sick.

I don't even need to reply to this comment because Anon 2 did it for me! This is exactly what I mean, thank you for explaining so well!
I was not addressing you; I was addressing the dad of the OP! Apologies for not making it more clear as to who I was talking about.
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Anonymous #4
#32
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#32
(Original post by onceuponatime1)
I was not addressing you; I was addressing the dad of the OP! Apologies for not making it more clear as to who I was talking about.
Oh okay no problem haha!
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mgi
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Anonymous)
umm so I just overheard my dad say he supports honour killings and now im scared because I am quite opinionated and have made it clear to them that I am not getting an arranged marriage etc.

and my parents were talking and I was overhearing because they talk a lot when im not there but when I come in they get silent so I just wanted to hear what they were saying which was probably wrong but I dont care after what I heard im just scared

what I heard my dad say is "I know people back home (in south asia) who have done honour killings and they did it for the right reasons" (he said this in my native language which is why it sounds a bit weird translated) but what?!!!!! my mum didn't even say anything in response to that and I got so scared I ran to my room and started typing this

like im probably overreacting but who says that and why didn't my mum say anything and im so scared

do I just do nothing and pretend I didn't hear or what do I doooo
How old are you? And please stop calling these things "honour killings"! They are murders and that's what they should be called. You will have to outwit your archaic dad and leave home for uni when you are 18.
You definitely should not go for an arranged marriage- most of them fail!
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fake_abs
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#34
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(Original post by Anonymous)
umm so I just overheard my dad say he supports honour killings and now im scared because I am quite opinionated and have made it clear to them that I am not getting an arranged marriage etc.

and my parents were talking and I was overhearing because they talk a lot when im not there but when I come in they get silent so I just wanted to hear what they were saying which was probably wrong but I dont care after what I heard im just scared

what I heard my dad say is "I know people back home (in south asia) who have done honour killings and they did it for the right reasons" (he said this in my native language which is why it sounds a bit weird translated) but what?!!!!! my mum didn't even say anything in response to that and I got so scared I ran to my room and started typing this

like im probably overreacting but who says that and why didn't my mum say anything and im so scared

do I just do nothing and pretend I didn't hear or what do I doooo
I've been in a similar situation. My auntie married a white man and there was a group of people in my family that wanted to kill her. There has been honour killings around my family too, my mum told me a story about how a friend of her's was killed by her brother and mother.

I mentioned arranged and forced marriage concerns to my school, (in secondary school idk about college or uni) and they arranged someone to meet with me in school who was with an organization specialized in helping people with this issue and similar issues. They didn't tell my family and my family don't know to this day.

There is Karma Nirvana which is an award winning charity against honour-based abuse.
Also call Freephone 24-Hour National Domestic Abuse Helpline: 0808 2000 247. They have people specialized in honour-based abuse.

There is also the government's Forced Marriage Unit.
[email protected]
Telephone: 020 7008 0151
From overseas: +44 (0)20 7008 0151
Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm
Out of hours: 020 7008 1500 (ask for the Global Response Centre)
Last edited by fake_abs; 2 weeks ago
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Gundabad(good)
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#35
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As long as you have a good relationship with your parents, then I think you shouldn't worry too much. However, supporting honor killings is a sign of religious extremism which is never good.
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Anonymous #2
#36
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#36
(Original post by Anonymous)
I just want to make it clear that I don't agree with honour killings in the absolute slightest and anyone who does makes me sick.

I don't even need to reply to this comment because Anon 2 did it for me! This is exactly what I mean, thank you for explaining so well!
You're welcome! I do get what you mean, but it can be difficult to understand if you were not brought up around that culture and have not grown up around it.

Like I said before about moving out for university - not all south asian parents are 100% okay or comfortable with the idea of their children moving out alone (regardless of their age) because it is not something that they were brought up with, and the idea is foreign to them. Although it has become quite normalised here, some are still weary of it - even if you're 18 and are meant to be "independent". It's hard to explain but one of my friends got into a university around an hour and a half away from home, and her parents insist that she stay home and travel each day, and I know that does sound unfair, and she should be able to make her own decision, but at the same time she has been brought up in a way that there's not really a way to get around it, and has to just go along with what they say (unless she wants to be kicked out of the house for going against them). That way, they can ensure that she's still being taken care of by them in certain aspects.

It's quite common in Pakistani culture for a girl to keep living with her parents until she get's married, but I know that's not the case for everyone, and some parents are comfortable with the idea.
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chopingirl
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#37
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#37
(Original post by fake_abs)
I've been in a similar situation. My auntie married a white man and there was a group of people in my family that wanted to kill her. There has been honour killings around my family too, my mum told me a story about how a friend of her's was killed by her brother and mother.

I mentioned arranged and forced marriage concerns to my school, (in secondary school idk about college or uni) and they arranged someone to meet with me in school who was with an organization specialized in helping people with this issue and similar issues. They didn't tell my family and my family don't know to this day.

There is Karma Nirvana which is an award winning charity against honour-based abuse.
Also call Freephone 24-Hour National Domestic Abuse Helpline: 0808 2000 247. They have people specialized in honour-based abuse.

There is also the government's Forced Marriage Unit.
[email protected]
Telephone: 020 7008 0151
From overseas: +44 (0)20 7008 0151
Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm
Out of hours: 020 7008 1500 (ask for the Global Response Centre)
I'm so glad there is help for people like you and OP who find themselves in this awful situation x
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Anonymous #4
#38
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(Original post by Anonymous)
You're welcome! I do get what you mean, but it can be difficult to understand if you were not brought up around that culture and have not grown up around it.

Like I said before about moving out for university - not all south asian parents are 100% okay or comfortable with the idea of their children moving out alone (regardless of their age) because it is not something that they were brought up with, and the idea is foreign to them. Although it has become quite normalised here, some are still weary of it - even if you're 18 and are meant to be "independent". It's hard to explain but one of my friends got into a university around an hour and a half away from home, and her parents insist that she stay home and travel each day, and I know that does sound unfair, and she should be able to make her own decision, but at the same time she has been brought up in a way that there's not really a way to get around it, and has to just go along with what they say (unless she wants to be kicked out of the house for going against them). That way, they can ensure that she's still being taken care of by them in certain aspects.

It's quite common in Pakistani culture for a girl to keep living with her parents until she get's married, but I know that's not the case for everyone, and some parents are comfortable with the idea.
Yeah I completely get that. I'm not Pakistani myself but I have many friends from South East Asian backgrounds who have said the same thing to me and a lot of them will be staying at home for university despite their protestations. It's quite sad but I do understand where the parents are coming from and it's not like they're doing it for a bad reason, just to protect them.
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fake_abs
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#39
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#39
(Original post by chopingirl)
I'm so glad there is help for people like you and OP who find themselves in this awful situation x
The concerns I've had around my family have been less dangerous as they first were. My family are aware I am very opinionated and if they cross certain boundaries, they know I won't have any concern with cutting them off and won't have any difficulty disappearing. Unfortunately, they are scared of me to an extent. The last couple of years I've spent emotionally, financially and physically preparing myself to be "ruthless" in that situation.
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Anonymous #1
#40
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(Original post by mgi)
How old are you? And please stop calling these things "honour killings"! They are murders and that's what they should be called. You will have to outwit your archaic dad and leave home for uni when you are 18.
You definitely should not go for an arranged marriage- most of them fail!
Im 16 and I called them "honour killings" because thats just what they're called by most people and yes I agree they should just be called murder but if I called it murder people would probably be a bit confused as to why I think my dad wants to murder me. But yh there's nothing honourable about them and its just murder.

Arranged marriage is just one of the many things they have planned for me but there is no way I'm going to listen to them
and yes i'm definitey leaving home as soon as possible
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