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Andrew97
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M637 – Kent Freight Motion 2020; 04MR17 MPThis House recognises that the port of Dover is an incredibly important place for UK trade, imports, exports and the economy generally.

This House also notes the challenges and difficulties faced by many lorry drivers, companies and tourists utilising the port of Dover, on account of the congestion caused by security checks - particularly during busy periods.

This House is alive to the possibility that such congestion is presently unacceptable and may become even worse as a result of the UK's exit from the European Union.

This House also recognises the opportunities that new trade deals could have for the UK's ports across the North of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

As a solution, this House advocates for any of the following measures to be used to alleviate the congestion and general over-reliance on the port of Dover:

1. Provide financial incentives for companies to use other ports along the South coast for freight or passenger travel

2. Work with local authorities to invest in road and rail links in other ports on the South coast

3. Review possibilities to boost trade through ports in all regions of England and Nations of the UK using new trade deals post-Brexit




Notes:
Spoiler:
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It is time that as a Parliament we recognise how Dover-heavy our national port infrastructure is. Dover was the largest passenger port in 2018 (p11). If the congestion develops any where near as badly as official reports estimate then passengers will be put off using Dover altogether, and freight companies may do similar if it is causing their company problems.

If anything were to happen that might cause Dover to become unusable temporarily, there could be significant economic damage to imports and exports. We need to take the opportunity of Brexit to consider what goods we can bring into Southampton, Portsmouth, Hull, Liverpool, Swansea, Belfast, Glasgow and more - and that the trade deals that we strike with the rest of the world in the future reflect our desire to diversify our port infrastructure to more than just Kent and London. As an island nation, we can do more to allow the whole UK to benefit from imports and exports, not just the South of England.

Furthermore, reduced congestion on the roads of Kent is likely to be a positive for Kentish residents and the local economies in the county too.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/brexit-po...ternal-border/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...orries-in-kent
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470

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Miss Maddie
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Leaning towards aye!

I agree to spreading trade out the best we can. I'm neutral, leaning towards an aye. Doesn't necessarily do much and the focus on Dover has something to do with it being the nearest point to Europe and thus has lower transportation costs than a longer ferry/train journey.
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Gundabad(good)
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(Original post by Andrew97)
M637 – Kent Freight Motion 2020; 04MR17 MPThis House recognises that the port of Dover is an incredibly important place for UK trade, imports, exports and the economy generally.

This House also notes the challenges and difficulties faced by many lorry drivers, companies and tourists utilising the port of Dover, on account of the congestion caused by security checks - particularly during busy periods.

This House is alive to the possibility that such congestion is presently unacceptable and may become even worse as a result of the UK's exit from the European Union.

This House also recognises the opportunities that new trade deals could have for the UK's ports across the North of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland

As a solution, this House advocates for any of the following measures to be used to alleviate the congestion and general over-reliance on the port of Dover:

1. Provide financial incentives for companies to use other ports along the South coast for freight or passenger travel

2. Work with local authorities to invest in road and rail links in other ports on the South coast

3. Review possibilities to boost trade through ports in all regions of England and Nations of the UK using new trade deals post-Brexit




Notes:

Spoiler:
Show

It is time that as a Parliament we recognise how Dover-heavy our national port infrastructure is. Dover was the largest passenger port in 2018 (p11). If the congestion develops any where near as badly as official reports estimate then passengers will be put off using Dover altogether, and freight companies may do similar if it is causing their company problems.

If anything were to happen that might cause Dover to become unusable temporarily, there could be significant economic damage to imports and exports. We need to take the opportunity of Brexit to consider what goods we can bring into Southampton, Portsmouth, Hull, Liverpool, Swansea, Belfast, Glasgow and more - and that the trade deals that we strike with the rest of the world in the future reflect our desire to diversify our port infrastructure to more than just Kent and London. As an island nation, we can do more to allow the whole UK to benefit from imports and exports, not just the South of England.

Furthermore, reduced congestion on the roads of Kent is likely to be a positive for Kentish residents and the local economies in the county too.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/brexit-po...ternal-border/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...orries-in-kent
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54260470

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Nay. We must expand Dover, not drive business away from it.
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Aph
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But we already know the plan is for Kent to become a separate customs zone in the UK which will follow EU rules after we leave (like NI), thus reducing friction in Dover itself by pushing it back to the Kent border. That seems more realistic to me
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Theloniouss
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What is the benefit of this over improving the infrastructure in Dover?
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Mr T 999
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Aye! As Maddie has already mentioned Dover is close proximity to Europe which benefited us greatly when we were part of the EU as its lower transport cost. Now that we are leaving it does make sense to invest in other ports and diversify and improve our trade route.
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Iñigo de Loyola
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(Original post by Aph)
But we already know the plan is for Kent to become a separate customs zone in the UK which will follow EU rules after we leave (like NI), thus reducing friction in Dover itself by pushing it back to the Kent border. That seems more realistic to me
:facepalm2: yet another cockup brought to you by Boris.

As for the motion, Aye. It's always best to keep all your eggs in one basket.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Theloniouss)
What is the benefit of this over improving the infrastructure in Dover?
Improving the infrastructure in Dover won't really create many jobs in Liverpool or Glasgow, that's one benefit.
The other benefit is that the people of Kent might see fewer lorries driving past their houses, and have a shorter commute (in time) to work in the morning. Adding more roads and swelling an already huge port will maybe help congestion, but it's much more of a short term solution when we may find ourselves having the same discussion if Dover hits its inflated capacity.
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Improving the infrastructure in Dover won't really create many jobs in Liverpool or Glasgow, that's one benefit.
The other benefit is that the people of Kent might see fewer lorries driving past their houses, and have a shorter commute (in time) to work in the morning. Adding more roads and swelling an already huge port will maybe help congestion, but it's much more of a short term solution when we may find ourselves having the same discussion if Dover hits its inflated capacity.
I support this, then
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04MR17
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(Original post by Aph)
But we already know the plan is for Kent to become a separate customs zone in the UK which will follow EU rules after we leave (like NI), thus reducing friction in Dover itself by pushing it back to the Kent border. That seems more realistic to me
"the plan" is
a.) unreliable as is, and means we have to trust the IRL government over Brexit - not something I think their track record supports
b.) able to be overwritten very easily by MHoC, especially before it comes into place
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Aph
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(Original post by 04MR17)
"the plan" is
a.) unreliable as is, and means we have to trust the IRL government over Brexit - not something I think their track record supports
b.) able to be overwritten very easily by MHoC, especially before it comes into place
I was being sarcastic.
Although really this is just another of the many logistical problems we were always going to face.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Aph)
I was being sarcastic.
Although really this is just another of the many logistical problems we were always going to face.
Ah, my apologies
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Saracen's Fez
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Personally I'm quite sceptical that the best answer to urgently needing better port infrastructure and transport infrastructure for onward travel is a solution where we need to replicate that at multiple RORO ports in the south, most of which in the vicinity of Dover have significantly worse infrastructure for onward travel.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by 04MR17)
Improving the infrastructure in Dover won't really create many jobs in Liverpool or Glasgow, that's one benefit.
The other benefit is that the people of Kent might see fewer lorries driving past their houses, and have a shorter commute (in time) to work in the morning. Adding more roads and swelling an already huge port will maybe help congestion, but it's much more of a short term solution when we may find ourselves having the same discussion if Dover hits its inflated capacity.
Last I checked neither Liverpool nor Glasgow are on the south coast...

Do you know why Dover is used? If not let's try a different question, which port is closest to Continental Europe?
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CatusStarbright
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Great idea in theory, but there is a reason why Dover is our main port - it's far closer to the continent.
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Possibly this
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Aye, I think spreading the load across several other ports in the south of England can only be a good thing for creation of jobs and making sure that Britain's ports are able to thrive during our exit from Europe and beyond. Hopefully this decentralisation will create a landscape where the UK can open itself to greater non-European trade also as whilst Dover may be closer to Europe, it's certainly much further than more Western ports are from the Atlantic which is how most of the world reaches us. I think these changes will make us better adapted to the years ahead.
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Saracen's Fez
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Given that almost any motorised road transport will be faster than motorised water transport, simply because of the difference between travelling through air versus water, the quickest journey is likely the one with the largest proportion by road and the smallest proportion by water. Dover isn't a container port, it's a RORO port, so the benefit of being the nearest town to the Channel's narrowest point is the reason it's used and will always be favoured.
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04MR17
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Last I checked neither Liverpool nor Glasgow are on the south coast...

Do you know why Dover is used? If not let's try a different question, which port is closest to Continental Europe?
You could just make your point rather than skirt around it. It would make things far quicker for both of us.

You've either misread the motion or you're making the point that ports on the South Coast will be utilised more than other ports because most of the world is to the South of the UK. You are correct. Hence this motion advocates for the strengthening of other ports along the South Coast. I'm having difficulty seeing how this point reflects a problem with the Motion.
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04MR17
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(Original post by CatusStarbright)
Great idea in theory, but there is a reason why Dover is our main port - it's far closer to the continent.
There is more than one continent. Also see below.
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Given that almost any motorised road transport will be faster than motorised water transport, simply because of the difference between travelling through air versus water, the quickest journey is likely the one with the largest proportion by road and the smallest proportion by water. Dover isn't a container port, it's a RORO port, so the benefit of being the nearest town to the Channel's narrowest point is the reason it's used and will always be favoured.
One crucial bit here: travelling through air requires travelling. It would seem that trucks driving through Kent spend a fair amount of their time not travelling at all. Second, this motion doesn't call for a reduction in the size or use of Dover, it simply suggests that increasing the size and use of other ports is a better solution than expanding Dover. Third, I am aware that businesses are unlikely to change their routes if Dover is cheaper, hence the motion offers a scheme of financial incentive for companies who begin using other ports.
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Alex 3
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I’m a bit torn on this Motion to be honest. I agree that other ports should be expanded, provided there is the demand, but not so sure about financial incentives for companies to use other ports.

The financial incentive would have to be pretty hefty to justify the additional time and fuel travelling further to another port. Dover is the quickest port to access and takes the least amount of time to get the France.

Work is being done on the M20 to relieve congestion in the event of Brexit style queues, and at the moment the M20 does move fairly freely provided there has not been an incident or delay at the port
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