Is hatred of the USA just jealousy? Watch

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aliel
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#221
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#221
*Gives out chill pills* :hello:
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Kondar
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#222
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(Original post by calumc)
Stopped reading there,
You are not one for facts are you. Am I to expect any kind of response to the issues and facts I have listed or are you just going to continue on saying nothing in as many words as possible?
as it became clear you'd clearly misread or ignored what I said and to top it off, had decided to be unnecesarily patronising, not to mention hypocritical.
Remember the phrase ‘goddamn arrogance’?
or perhaps you simply realise that you could not possibly support the assertion that it was "the top" in these categories, since in the majority of cases it isn't. Why you still think that despite being only a "one of" makes the US the "greatest country on earth" eludes me, because as I'm hope you've become aware in trying to argue your case, there are actually very few categories the US is "greatest" in, and the few that it is, such as military/monetary power, are because of and rely almost solely on it's large size and population.
You really are selective aren’t you. The US spends more on it’s military than the rest of the world combined. Surely you are not ascerting that the US population is greater than the entire world combined??? I have continually maintained that the US is in the top of these categories. Never have I said that it was the best in every category.

Perhaps because I'm not some 12 year-old with penis envy, I am far from jealous of you for "living in a bigger country than me", which I'm afraid appears to be all it comes down to.
Nice touch. How much time and how many posts are you going to waste in attempt to convince me of this??? The more you scream out that its not true, the more I believe the contrary.

Anyway, I give up. Go on thinking you live in "the greatest country on earth" if it keeps you happy, since I'm clearly not going to convince you otherwise, but I do hope I've caused you to question this, and hopefully realise that your belief is more of a "traditional American idea" than something based on anything factual. But please realise, there really is nothing for me to be jealous of, really.
Then shut up already or open a book and let’s discuss facts and issues.
Alright Mr. Literary, would you please give me a single example of any of my statements on this thread in which I claimed that the ‘United States is the Greatest Country in the World”
I really hope they offer reading comprehension at that school of yours, I do suggest signing up ASAP.
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A0307
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(Original post by vienna95)
So whats the argument?

I havent seen where Kondar asserted that the US was the greatest country on earth. I did see that he demonstrated that it was the most militarily and economically powerful, and like the developed world, is comparably a great place to live.
Looking back at his previous post- "I'm not saying that the US is the best nation in the world from an objective point, but more from my subjective opinion. But, I am aware that much of the contempt directed at my country is spawned from jealousy.".

From those two sentences we gain-
1- He thinks the US is "the best nation in the world".
2- He thinks the rest of the world is jealous because of this.

After that, the rest of your post becomes rather meaningless.
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Vienna
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#224
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(Original post by calumc)
Looking back at his previous post- "I'm not saying that the US is the best nation in the world from an objective point, but more from my subjective opinion. But, I am aware that much of the contempt directed at my country is spawned from jealousy.".

From those two sentences we gain-
1- He thinks the US is "the best nation in the world".
2- He thinks the rest of the world is jealous because of this.
i) His previous post wasnt his only post, and certainly not the one you started bleating in reply to. You started fabricating his quotes and convictions way before that.

ii) There clearly is a qualifier that distinguishes the difference between an objective opinion that declares the USA to be the greatest nation on earth, and his own opinion as an American which he is likely to hold. The former is the one relevant in this discussion.

iii) He suggests that jealousy of the undeniable power held by the US, is often at the root of sloppy, anti-american, prejudice-ridden ranting à la your contributions on this thread.

After that, the rest of your post becomes rather meaningless.
I had anticipated that you would perceive credible points, and the opportunity to readdress them, in this manner and thus am not totally distraught by not having to continually point out non-argument.
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A0307
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#225
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(Original post by vienna95)
i) His previous post wasnt his only post, and certainly not the one you started bleating in reply to. You started fabricating his quotes and convictions way before that.

ii) There clearly is a qualifier that distinguishes the difference between an objective opinion that declares the USA to be the greatest nation on earth, and his own opinion as an American which he is likely to hold. The former is the one relevant in this discussion.

iii) He suggests that jealousy of the undeniable power held by the US, is often at the root of sloppy, anti-american, prejudice-ridden ranting à la your contributions on this thread.

I had anticipated that you would perceive credible points, and the opportunity to readdress them, in this manner and thus am not totally distraught by not having to continually point out non-argument.
i)Fairly irrelevant, his opinion was obvious even if he didn't explicitly state it.

ii)In terms of argument, is there really a difference? Whether somethings an "objective" opinion or merely a "personal" one, the reasons are the same, surely.

iii)Okay.

Anyway, I better go get some work done, go back to uni on Monday to be met with the joy of "collections".
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Vienna
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(Original post by calumc)
i)Fairly irrelevant, his opinion was obvious even if he didn't explicitly state it.
So you quoted and argued against something he never stated?
Id say that was entirely relevant to the discussion we are having now and the one you had with Kondar.

ii)In terms of argument, is there really a difference? Whether somethings an "objective" opinion or merely a "personal" one, the reasons are the same, surely.
I cannot change his own personal subjective opinion, but we can argue and discuss against an assertion that the US is objectively the greatest nation on earth. If you believe, for example, Wales to be the greatest nation on earth, then I may question that but it remains your own belief to be respected. If you propose on this forum, providing substantiation and evidence suggesting that this is indeed an objective reality, then Im entitled to argue against it and against your credibility.
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Jamie
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(Original post by Kondar)
A decreased dollar makes our products cheaper on a global market. Thus it increases US exports.
It also means you pay more for imports...like oil.
And do remember that some nations, peg their currency to the dollar. Like china for instance.
Hence the trade deficit with china (being one of/the biggest market exporting to the US) will not decrease froma weak dollar. the main effect it is having is increasing the price of european/japanese imports, and pissing off the foreign markets.
material breach
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#228
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I think you would be pretty thick not to realise that the US as a develop nation is a very nice place to live in the world compared to the conditions enjoyed by most of the world's population. Ie you are likely to have running water and a toliet to use which is more than alot of people have.

However quite how the US preforms in comparision to the rest of the developed nations is very much up for debate I think. I personnallly I precieve the culture in europe to be far more sophicated in europe for the simple reason it has been in development for far longer. This history I think reflects into the views of the citizeans far more. I think that in this respect the US comes across as very noveau riche and a little imature at times. The US being the fusing of so many immigrants also seems to give a very fractious nature to the world outside. Certainly this seems to be true with the civil war split seemingly evident in the voting for the recent election.
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Vienna
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(Original post by Speciez99)
I personnallly I precieve the culture in europe to be far more sophicated in europe.
What do you mean by sophistication and do you perceive this to be of value?

This history I think reflects into the views of the citizeans far more.
If you mean has European history made its populations statist and socialist then I would say yes.

The US being the fusing of so many immigrants also seems to give a very fractious nature to the world outside. Certainly this seems to be true with the civil war split seemingly evident in the voting for the recent election.
I think its more characteristic of American isolationism and detest of big, central government.
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material breach
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#230
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(Original post by vienna95)
What do you mean by sophistication and do you perceive this to be of value?
Ok take an example, food, I would prefer to eat french food as its far more sophicated than American any day. Personally I think food is pretty important in the quality of our lives.
(Original post by vienna95)
If you mean has European history made its populations statist and socialist then I would say yes.
I am not sure how you got that from what I said. Would you care to expalin...
(Original post by vienna95)
I think its more characteristic of American isolationism and detest of big, central government.
You are going to have to write more than a line for anyone to understand you.
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canuck
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(Original post by vienna95)
I'll take that as a compliment and spare the negative rep, as there are just too many insults worth mentioning.

You proved my point. :aetsch:
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Made in the USA
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(Original post by Douglas)
Shaun is on Fox news.........I'll give you a Yes.
Rush is on the radio.............I'll give you a Yes
Who's Michael??

Now for some liberal media............TV first
NBC
CBS
ABC
PBS

News papers
NY times
LA times
Washington post
Chicago tribune
Boston globe
Miami herald
and many more.
Many many more. A list of each liberal media outlet would take you days to compile. I would describe everything else as being liberal.
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Vienna
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(Original post by Speciez99)
Ok take an example, food, I would prefer to eat french food as its far more sophicated than American any day.
In what way? And is that necessarily an indicator of the value of living?

I am not sure how you got that from what I said. Would you care to expalin...
As a result of centuries of fighting, Europeans are more comfortable being dependent on a large central government.

You are going to have to write more than a line for anyone to understand you.
Americans are far more reluctant to sacrifice their individual rights for the wider, centralised good. Such a split across America is a clear case for federalism.
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Jamie
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(Original post by vienna95)
In what way? And is that necessarily an indicator of the value of living?


As a result of centuries of fighting, Europeans are more comfortable being dependent on a large central government.


Americans are far more reluctant to sacrifice their individual rights for the wider, centralised good. Such a split across America is a clear case for federalism.
In the past many people including myself have accused americnas of being pretty damned selfish.
Do you think that it is a big leap to go from "Americans are far more reluctant to sacrifice their individual rights for the wider, centralised good" to "Americans are self centred".
By the by I mean selfish in terms of their fellow americans as well as fellow humans.
Kew
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#235
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Well, I'd rather have the history,culture,traditions etc. of England any day! Why should I be jealous of America's? As far as I'm concerned, my life here is as comfortable/enjoyable as it would be if I lived in America.
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Made in the USA
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(Original post by canuck)
http://www.canadianeconomy.gc.ca/english/economy/

Please look here, since your to bloody lazy to look for yourself

The only thing you did in posting that link was prove my point. You have a much higher unemployement rate than we do.

I was refuting this point you made:

(Original post by canuck)
if your looking for a job, come over.
The unemployment figures you provided are lower than the ones I found, but both show an unemployment rate that is much higher than ours
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Vienna
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(Original post by foolfarian)
In the past many people including myself have accused americnas of being pretty damned selfish.
Do you think that it is a big leap to go from "Americans are far more reluctant to sacrifice their individual rights for the wider, centralised good" to "Americans are self centred".
By the by I mean selfish in terms of their fellow americans as well as fellow humans.
Yes, I think its a big jump. Id be interested to know how you perceive the current aid contribution coming from America, or the fact that Americans who make up roughly 6 percent of the worlds population contribute 60% of the worlds aid. Or the fact that America sustains a military capability that it regularly commits in the wake of natural disasters such as the recent Asian tsunami. That is not to say that other nations are any less giving, but rather confusion as to the source of your sentiments and those of people like Jan Engelund and the NY Times.
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material breach
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(Original post by vienna95)
In what way? And is that necessarily an indicator of the value of living?
I would of thought its pretty clear that french cusine is more sophicated than French. Its tastes better for example, its more natural ect.
I think that food is an essential in life and hence it makes up part of someone's quality of life.
(Original post by vienna95)
As a result of centuries of fighting, Europeans are more comfortable being dependent on a large central government.
Lets look at the line of logic:
Europe has had centuries of infighting
=>more comfortable with being dependant on a central government
=>made its populations statist and socialist

hmm, the first statement has no influence on the 2nd at all. There is no logical reason to link them at all. 2ndly I think that countries in Europe at the moment realises that its benificial to be part of a large group to ensure their interests are looked after. Secoundly I would hardly say this made Europe staitist and socialists. How can you say such a large generalisation.
(Original post by vienna95)
Americans are far more reluctant to sacrifice their individual rights for the wider, centralised good. Such a split across America is a clear case for federalism.
I think you have misintrepted my comments, there is a distinct divide between views typifiied by the southern states and those on either coasts. Both groups I would say have a pretty similar view on the role of governement in America. This does not seem the issue to me.
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canuck
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(Original post by Made in the USA)


The unemployment figures you provided are lower than the ones I found, but both show an unemployment rate that is much higher than ours
Well, in a "lefty" society, our unemployment figures will be higher than the U.S.'s. Europes is also higher than the U.S.'s. The question you should be asking, why do european and Canadian's enjoy their current socail system. Hard times are protected by our socail benifits, same as in Europe. Although, those with mental illness, drug problems, Aboriginals and students do not work, or only work part time. If you look at the figures of people 25+, the unemplyment figures are far lower. Many university students do not work part time, mainly because the goverment supports students with interests free loans and subsidised education.

I would like to know how many Americans have to work multiple part time jobs just to earn a basic leaving.
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material breach
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(Original post by vienna95)
Yes, I think its a big jump. Id be interested to know how you perceive the current aid contribution coming from America, or the fact that Americans who make up roughly 6 percent of the worlds population contribute 60% of the worlds aid. Or the fact that America sustains a military capability that it regularly commits in the wake of natural disasters such as the recent Asian tsunami. That is not to say that other nations are any less giving, but rather confusion as to the source of your sentiments and those of people like Jan Engelund and the NY Times.
The American people are undoubablly generous. However considering American is the richest nation in the world and can afford to spend $420 billion on stuff to kill people with, giving $350 million doesnt seem alot. I am not belittling it, all I am saying is that we should expect a large contribution and considering other nations have pledged larger percentages of the GDP its hardly like the USA is putting themselves out.

The USA does pledge alot of money to charity, and certainly the American people themselves are very generous. However I would like to know what percentage of their aid in general is tied to American products.
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