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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Well i'm talking about issues like Chile and General Pinochet....which good old thatcher supported too
    I notice your not talking about the major act of American intervention this century during WWII.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I notice your not talking about the major act of American intervention this century during WWII.
    why do all these muppets always go back to historical reference and then deliberately 'forget' the good episodes.
    Its the same with the likes of lionel with politcal history of the UK.
    end result is you look silly.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    As no doubt many members of this site will point out there seems to be a certain hatred for America in the world whether it be in the mosques of Iran, the countryside of korea or in France.

    Many reasons have been put forward for the hatred of America, their determination to impose their will whether it be right or wrong on other countries, the fusing of evanglical christainity with politics and their disregard for the environment. However does most of this hatred really boil down to jealousy in the world. The fact they have so much power.

    Personally I would like to think that this is the case for the informed objector however I can see it might well be the case for the ignorant.

    NB: I have used the world hatred as its quite clear some groups do hate American but I also inculde the general dislike found in mainstream european politics for America. I do not think that everyone who campagined against the war hated america.
    I personally am jealous of any big city that has mass transportation. so really, I'm a texan jealous of europe.

    just thought I would say that on the lighter side!
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    on the topic of american imperialism, I just read an amazing book called King Leopold's Ghost (about imperialism in Belgium) that completely shattered my view of my own country's "freedom" projects. basically, to achieve our own ends in the Congo we killed their first president/ had him assiasinated because he did not want his country to be the economic slave of ours. Instead of a competant man who was looking out for his country we appointed an officer of the Force Publique, a militia which had killed nearly 10 million Congolese in 60 years. The first Bush president called Mugabe the best friend we have ever had in Africa, and a stabilizing force. When Mugabe was just as bad as Saddam. I'm sensing both sepcial interest and corruption in our own government here.

    Washington is a place that is supposed to hold up freedom and democracy, but has ruined other countries chances of ever having them over the years.
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    (Original post by curryADD)
    on the topic of american imperialism, I just read an amazing book called King Leopold's Ghost (about imperialism in Belgium) that completely shattered my view of my own country's "freedom" projects. basically, to achieve our own ends in the Congo we killed their first president/ had him assiasinated because he did not want his country to be the economic slave of ours. Instead of a competant man who was looking out for his country we appointed an officer of the Force Publique, a militia which had killed nearly 10 million Congolese in 60 years. The first Bush president called Mugabe the best friend we have ever had in Africa, and a stabilizing force. When Mugabe was just as bad as Saddam. I'm sensing both sepcial interest and corruption in our own government here.

    Washington is a place that is supposed to hold up freedom and democracy, but has ruined other countries chances of ever having them over the years.
    You've heard the famous quote haven't you about the old zaire (congo) leader (from an american president or someone high up) "he may be a baztard, but he's our baztard" (or something like that)
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I notice your not talking about the major act of American intervention this century during WWII.
    But didnt they only come in after pearl harbour, and because Japan were allied with Germany?
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    But didnt they only come in after pearl harbour, and because Japan were allied with Germany?
    I love how it always has to have qualifications... as in "but...."

    This thread just proved what Howard said..."the devil and the deep blue sea"
    part to be specific.

    Anyway, I personally have never thought of it as jelousy per se.

    I feel it's a combination of bias, ignorance, and hatred ....

    I've been to quite a few countries, and if you ask everyday people in Europe and Asia, the US is held to an excrutiating standard that no country could possibly fulfill.

    Why aren't we asking why France, The UK, or Germany are doing the same things in relation to Africa? No Pakistani national would possibly expect these things....But when it comes to the US...
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    The US has invited people to judge it harshly because it has assumed the role of a spreader of democracy and peace. Many other countries (democractic and otherwise) seem to be more concerned with perfecting their own governments. This might be claimed to be nationalism, but it's more like a case of learing to walk before you run (or before you tell other people how they should be running). Germany seems to me to have the best form of democracy - better than the British or Americans, anyway. America should not cast the first stone by condemning other countries' regimes until it has become the perfect democracy.

    If and when that happenes, everyone will move to America to experience it, and there will be no-one left in countries governed in any other way. If America ever attains this perfection, theoretically anti-US sentiment should decrease - for who can argue with the truth?

    One might say that the answer to that is not 'who', but 'what' - dogma, that's what. Chances are, religious extremists will have such mental barriers that even the perfect truth cannot break them down. However, perfection by its very nature is a) able to break down any mental barriers constructed by finite intellects and b) unattainable by said intellects.

    And yes, I am aware that by discussing the nature of truth and perfection I am looking over the border into Philosophy-land.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    America should not cast the first stone by condemning other countries' regimes until it has become the perfect democracy.
    It is liberty not democracy that America seeks to spread.

    If and when that happenes, everyone will move to America to experience it, and there will be no-one left in countries governed in any other way. If America ever attains this perfection, theoretically anti-US sentiment should decrease - for who can argue with the truth?
    That is the rationale that is taking shape in the middle east, who wants to be the last enemy of liberty?
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    [QUOTE=djchak]I love how it always has to have qualifications... as in "but...."

    I really don't feel very strongly on this, was just trying to put the other side of the argument, the fact that they wernt as selfless and heroic in aiding us as some Americans claim....not that any country is, or i would expect them to be. But the bay of pigs, Chile, and the like is why people resent them
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    If the goal is liberty, then why were Iran and Syria branded as obstructing democracy in the Middle East?
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    If the goal is liberty, then why were Iran and Syria branded as obstructing democracy in the Middle East?
    Democracy is relevant to acheiving that goal.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    It is liberty not democracy that America seeks to spread.
    G W Bush: (from CNN)

    "it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world," Bush said in his inaugural address after his swearing-in ceremony.

    Sorry vienna but you are wrong on this one.
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    G W Bush: (from CNN)

    "it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world," Bush said in his inaugural address after his swearing-in ceremony.

    Sorry vienna but you are wrong on this one.
    "it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world,"

    check again.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    I really don't feel very strongly on this, was just trying to put the other side of the argument, the fact that they wernt as selfless and heroic in aiding us as some Americans claim....not that any country is, or i would expect them to be. But the bay of pigs, Chile, and the like is why people resent them
    If that was true only Cuba and Chile would have strong feelings against us.

    And honestly, I think in south america, that's where some of our biggest foreign policy diasters have been.

    I suppose if you believe that 500K getting involved in WW2 wasn't at least a positive action, or "selfless and heroic" on the part of the soldiers personally, then there's nothing I can really say to convince you otherwise.

    Now, would I expect some people in the UK to be mad that the US didn't help out in the Battle of Britain, directly? Sure....but the fact that we joined eventually, and we were aiding you indirectly via maritime merchant ships.

    Theres been dozens of discussions about US involvement during WW2 anyway.

    None of it has all that much to do with the anti-americanism found today.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    If the goal is liberty, then why were Iran and Syria branded as obstructing democracy in the Middle East?
    Good question. Both countries are well known champions of liberty and democracy. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Mr White)
    I suppose jealously seems like a fair-enough term. The world-at-large needs a strong, benevolent ruling empire to prevent small rogue states having excess power. In the past, the British Empire served this purpose, but, having sacrificed itself to defeat Nazism, a new empire was neccessary to preserve world peace. The USA serves this purpose, but unfortunately seems unwilling to acknowledge it's state as an "empire" by imposing unfeasiblely short time-limits on it's overseas jaunts and by being too insular.

    I would assume that many Britains are resentful of the Americans 'usurping' their hard-gained empire; 67 countries gaining independence from the mother land over the last 75 years would leave anyone bitter. Times change, though, and Britain's dominance over the world inevitably has ended.
    We'll get it back! hehe
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    Neither the British Empire nor the US Empire were/are benevolent, although both were/are strong.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Neither the British Empire nor the US Empire were/are benevolent, although both were/are strong.
    The US dont possess an empire, and were they to do so it would be comparably negligible in comparison with the British at their zenith.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    Neither the British Empire nor the US Empire were/are benevolent, although both were/are strong.
    You just reminded me of an interesting article from a while back. The article basically said that every "empire" leads the world in a more positive overall direction--by passing down their successful practices to others. Normally, this has to be done by force, and people complain about the principle of it, but they rarely part with the things that they learned from the ruling empire.
 
 
 
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