Lisa Montgomery to be first female federal inmate executed in 67 years

Watch
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#1
As a general rule of thumb i'm against the state being allowed to execute its citizens but i must say, this womans egregious crime really does strain that belief to breaking point.
Supposed brain damage or not cutting someone open to steal their child is an abominable crime.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...randon-bernard
0
reply
fallen_acorns
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#2
Report 1 month ago
#2
That is absolutely insane.

Whether its the death penalty or life(until death) doesn't really matter to me so much, but just christ, that crime is twisted.

I don't like the casual sexism though that a lot of comentators are putting out. Not meaning to sound like an MRA but there is no moral difference between the state killing a man and a woman.
1
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#3
Report 1 month ago
#3
About time we followed suit and brought back capital punishment to this country.
1
reply
Joleee
Badges: 19
#4
Report 1 month ago
#4
given the crime is so sick and bizarre i’m just surprised the public defender couldn’t prove insanity; it’s not your typical murder like a crime of passion.

personally not anti-death penalty in extreme cases like terrorism or Reynhard Sinaga whose crime is so sick i can’t even say it, but this isn’t extreme enough for me.
1
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#5
(Original post by Joleee)
given the crime is so sick and bizarre i’m just surprised the public defender couldn’t prove insanity; it’s not your typical murder like a crime of passion.

personally not anti-death penalty in extreme cases like terrorism or Reynhard Sinaga whose crime is so sick i can’t even say it, but this isn’t extreme enough for me.
Say what you will about the punishment doctrine of an eye for an eye, or simply lopping bits off, but i feel in the case you cited it wouldnt be considered beyond the bounds of reason. After all, if we average his sentence per rape (not including the other offences) its not exactly the greatest deterrent available.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#6
Report 1 month ago
#6
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
About time we followed suit and brought back capital punishment to this country.
Yea because the right wing American justice system reduces crime so much, let's copy it :rolleyes:

(Original post by Napp)
As a general rule of thumb i'm against the state being allowed to execute its citizens but i must say, this womans egregious crime really does strain that belief to breaking point.
Supposed brain damage or not cutting someone open to steal their child is an abominable crime.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...randon-bernard
I believe we should be tougher on crime than we are but death penalty is too extreme. We need to look at the causes of crime and work on reducing them, people in general dont want to be criminals. Situations like this sound like a breakdown in mental health care to me.
4
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#7
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#7
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Yea because the right wing American justice system reduces crime so much, let's copy it :rolleyes:


I believe we should be tougher on crime than we are but death penalty is too extreme. We need to look at the causes of crime and work on reducing them, people in general dont want to be criminals. Situations like this sound like a breakdown in mental health care to me.
Indeed, although my general opposition is seriously tried in such utterly outrageous circumstances. Alas, the government has made a point of sweeping mental health care under the rug for many many years. The cost of bringing it up to par would be eye popping i imagine.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#8
Report 1 month ago
#8
(Original post by Napp)
Indeed, although my general opposition is seriously tried in such utterly outrageous circumstances. Alas, the government has made a point of sweeping mental health care under the rug for many many years. The cost of bringing it up to par would be eye popping i imagine.
Oh agreed however what's the cost of not doing...with mental health issues on the rise in the UK the sweep it under the carpet and tell people to "man up" or demonize them!

We are heading to a huge problem. At the moment in Nottingham the part of the QMC built to treat mental health patients lies majority empty.

P.s this does not excuse the hideous crimes this women has committed but killing her wont solve or reduce the chances of history repeating itself with a different person in the future, either.
0
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#9
Report 1 month ago
#9
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Yea because the right wing American justice system reduces crime so much, let's copy it :rolleyes:


I believe we should be tougher on crime than we are but death penalty is too extreme. We need to look at the causes of crime and work on reducing them, people in general dont want to be criminals. Situations like this sound like a breakdown in mental health care to me.
Get repeat offenders locked up. Rehabilitation doesn’t work. Reoffending rate is at 60%. People know the difference between right and wrong. If they don’t, lock them up. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#10
Report 1 month ago
#10
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Get repeat offenders locked up. Rehabilitation doesn’t work. Reoffending rate is at 60%. People know the difference between right and wrong. If they don’t, lock them up. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
However my point is the statistics don't back up your argument.
0
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#11
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#11
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Oh agreed however what's the cost of not doing...with mental health issues on the rise in the UK the sweep it under the carpet and tell people to "man up" or demonize them!

We are heading to a huge problem. At the moment in Nottingham the part of the QMC built to treat mental health patients lies majority empty.

P.s this does not excuse the hideous crimes this women has committed but killing her wont solve or reduce the chances of history repeating itself with a different person in the future, either.
Shh don't give Patel and co. any ideas!

I fully agree, although on a broader note it does raise the interesting debate on what the justice system should do; rehabilitation or vengeance (or usually a mixture of the two). With the Americans leaning towards the latter, Britain (usually) a mixture of both and our Scandinavian cousins going full on rehabilitative.
It does rather put a case in point for not letting there ever be trial by public, as it were, though - the general consensus is hang them irrespective of the circumstances :lol:
0
reply
Napp
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#12
Report Thread starter 1 month ago
#12
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Get repeat offenders locked up. Rehabilitation doesn’t work. Reoffending rate is at 60%. People know the difference between right and wrong. If they don’t, lock them up. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
In fairness to some of them there is a very convincing argument that the system sets them up for a life of crime. Be it prisons being a university for learning skills, society not allowing criminals to reintegrate and the system itself being woeful at preparing people for life outside again.

As an example, if someone is arrested for petty drug dealing and gets a couple of years they are de facto unhirable in most cases, when theyre released (unless they have helpful friends/family) they'll likely be homeless and they will have been taught damn all useful skills in jail - what other option do they have but to start plying their trade again? ... of course thats a gross over simplification for what is a policy nightmare but the point stands in most cases.
1
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#13
Report 1 month ago
#13
(Original post by Napp)
In fairness to some of them there is a very convincing argument that the system sets them up for a life of crime. Be it prisons being a university for learning skills, society not allowing criminals to reintegrate and the system itself being woeful at preparing people for life outside again.

As an example, if someone is arrested for petty drug dealing and gets a couple of years they are de facto unhirable in most cases, when theyre released (unless they have helpful friends/family) they'll likely be homeless and they will have been taught damn all useful skills in jail - what other option do they have but to start plying their trade again? ... of course thats a gross over simplification for what is a policy nightmare but the point stands in most cases.
I agree with that, which is why I think more needs done at a younger age. But the state is so afraid to interfere with families who quite frankly shouldn’t be having children in the first place.

That still doesn’t change the fact that you have lifer criminals who make the world for law abiding citizens like myself a more dangerous place. Sooner they are locked up the better.
1
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#14
Report 1 month ago
#14
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
However my point is the statistics don't back up your argument.
Statistics never back up any of your arguments but you still continue? :rolleyes:
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#15
Report 1 month ago
#15
(Original post by Napp)
Shh don't give Patel and co. any ideas!

I fully agree, although on a broader note it does raise the interesting debate on what the justice system should do; rehabilitation or vengeance (or usually a mixture of the two). With the Americans leaning towards the latter, Britain (usually) a mixture of both and our Scandinavian cousins going full on rehabilitative.
It does rather put a case in point for not letting there ever be trial by public, as it were, though - the general consensus is hang them irrespective of the circumstances :lol:
Absolutely, which in fairness is the hard core remainer arguement for not allowing public opinion dictate complex issues.

The truth is the answer is somewhere in the middle if the Scandinavian model and the America model however statistics alone point to the Scandinavian model being the most successful st reducing crime.

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
I agree with that, which is why I think more needs done at a younger age. But the state is so afraid to interfere with families who quite frankly shouldn’t be having children in the first place.

That still doesn’t change the fact that you have lifer criminals who make the world for law abiding citizens like myself a more dangerous place. Sooner they are locked up the better.
And here lies a cause of crime thats needs addressing career "celebritie" criminals. The guys that get caught are normally little guys whom are victims of the circumstances and the big criminals take advantage.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#16
Report 1 month ago
#16
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Statistics never back up any of your arguments but you still continue? :rolleyes:
That's a lie and your usual ad hominem.

Evidence

https://www.nationmaster.com/country...d-States/Crime

You know I provide evidence your dummy spit in "those who vote for the tories" thread proved that beyond reasonable doubt. Therefore I'm calling that a lie.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
0
reply
imlikeahermit
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#17
Report 1 month ago
#17
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
That's a lie and your usual ad hominem.

Evidence

https://www.nationmaster.com/country...d-States/Crime

You know I provide evidence your dummy spit in "those who vote for the tories" thread proved that beyond reasonable doubt. Therefore I'm calling that a lie.
Champion. Therefore I’m ignoring your posts!
1
reply
Jebedee
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#18
Report 1 month ago
#18
It will be interesting to hear what QE2 has to say on this. No doubt you're all equivalent to terrorists now for supporting capital punishment in this case.
0
reply
Joleee
Badges: 19
#19
Report 1 month ago
#19
(Original post by Napp)
Say what you will about the punishment doctrine of an eye for an eye, or simply lopping bits off, but i feel in the case you cited it wouldnt be considered beyond the bounds of reason. After all, if we average his sentence per rape (not including the other offences) its not exactly the greatest deterrent available.
i agree with everything you’ve said so far in this thread so finding it hard to reply

prison isn’t a deterrent and neither is capital punishment; never has been. if someone wants to commit a crime it’s cuz they’re desperate, got no hope of achieving anything, they’re insane, had a moment of mental breakdown, a sick individual like the case i mentioned.

i don’t know why i would support capital punishment in the case of Sinaga because it still wouldn’t be justice cuz it can’t undo his crime. tbh i would just sleep better at night knowing this is unacceptable. i don’t know if that’s a good reason but makes sense to me.
1
reply
yankeedog1953
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#20
Report 1 month ago
#20
what do you mean by people in general don't want to be criminal? thats criminals in general, want to criminals.i don't think crime and low income are at all linked. there are just as many drug dealers in affluent neighborhoods as the are in the ghetto.. the ghetto dealer is more likely to get arrested. he's more visible. people who are prepared, usually from poor choices early on in life and people who want something without working for it are the main reason for crime.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Are you travelling in the Uni student travel window (3-9 Dec) to go home for Christmas?

Yes (78)
26.71%
No - I have already returned home (35)
11.99%
No - I plan on travelling outside these dates (58)
19.86%
No - I'm staying at my term time address over Christmas (31)
10.62%
No - I live at home during term anyway (90)
30.82%

Watched Threads

View All