The death penalty should be a global practice?

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Alienated.
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#1
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IMO if we did have it, it would discourage people from committing crimes but it would also be inhumane and we'd be no better than the murderers, rapists etc

Do you think that major crimes could ever be justifiable or understood?
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Gofre
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#2
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The death penalty is almost universally recognised as an ineffective deterrent against crimes abhorrent enough to justify its use, nevermind lesser ones. The lengthy legal process involved in seeing a death sentence all the way through to completion is on average costlier than it would be to incarcerate someone for a life sentence. It's a futile endeavour which gives the worst offenders an easy way out while also introducing the risk of taking the lives of innocent people that may otherwise regain their freedom, it's not a beneficial option in any way really.
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Alienated.
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(Original post by Gofre)
The death penalty is almost universally recognised as an ineffective deterrent against crimes abhorrent enough to justify its use, nevermind lesser ones. The lengthy legal process involved in seeing a death sentence all the way through to completion is on average costlier than it would be to incarcerate someone for a life sentence. It's a futile endeavour which gives the worst offenders an easy way out while also introducing the risk of taking the lives of innocent people that may otherwise regain their freedom, it's not a beneficial option in any way really.
Interesting, so you believe that it would just be seen as an easy way out for criminals? Do you think life sentences would be any better then?
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Gofre
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(Original post by Alienated.)
Interesting, so you believe that it would just be seen as an easy way out for criminals? Do you think life sentences would be any better then?
Personally I do not believe in administering prison sentences solely for the purposes of retribution, but there is a reason people will often commit suicide in the face of capture after committing capital crimes, rather than allow themselves to suffer indefinite prison sentences.
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Napp
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(Original post by Alienated.)
IMO if we did have it, it would discourage people from committing crimes but it would also be inhumane and we'd be no better than the murderers, rapists etc

Do you think that major crimes could ever be justifiable or understood?
But it is a cast iron fact the death penalty does not discourage crime, not even a little bit. Merely look to, well, every single country that tops its citizens.
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Alienated.
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(Original post by Napp)
But it is a cast iron fact the death penalty does not discourage crime, not even a little bit. Merely look to, well, every single country that tops its citizens.
Would you commit a crime knowing you could face the death penalty?
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Napp
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(Original post by Alienated.)
Would you commit a crime knowing you could face the death penalty?
Without knowing the circumstances its impossible to say. Suffice it to say many many people do on a regular basis. Look at our own history, when we tried to legislate the death penalty for most crimes, it backfired spectacularly.

Take this as a truism, if someone is desperate enough (be it through drugs, money, threats etc.) they will do anything. Happily including capitol offenses.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Alienated.)
IMO if we did have it, it would discourage people from committing crimes
So are you saying that in countries that exercise the death penalty, there is no crime whatsoever?
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Alienated.
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(Original post by Napp)
Without knowing the circumstances its impossible to say. Suffice it to say many many people do on a regular basis. Look at our own history, when we tried to legislate the death penalty for most crimes, it backfired spectacularly.

Take this as a truism, if someone is desperate enough (be it through drugs, money, threats etc.) they will do anything. Happily including capitol offenses.
Then I'd doubt it that any life sentence, determinate prison sentences or death penalties will deter them.

(Original post by ByEeek)
So are you saying that in countries that exercise the death penalty, there is no crime whatsoever?
How did you go from 'discourage' to 'no crime whatsoever'?? No I did not say that, I said that it could act as a deterrent from committing capital crimes.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Alienated.)
How did you go from 'discourage' to 'no crime whatsoever'?? No I did not say that, I said that it could act as a deterrent from committing capital crimes.
Have you got any evidence to back that claim?
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Hellohsjakodsmka
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Well, you do have to think about the consequences. Will anything good actually come of it? Clearly the victim (of capital punishment) can't be rehabilitated and become a functioning member of society anymore. So, they won't be able to hurt anyone else ever again either, which has to be a good thing. But they're unlikely to be able hurt anyone again if they are simply imprisoned, too. Not only does imprisonment have the added benefit of being cheaper, but it also doesn't 'brutalise' the population as the literature seems to indicate capital punishment does. I can't really see any good reasons for it at all tbh. Some seem to think that some criminals just 'deserve' it but this seems to be a very difficult position to justify for anyone who is at all concerned with the suffering of other people.
If you look at America for example - it's more expensive than a life sentence, owing to the multiple appeals involved, you can't eliminate the risk of killing an innocent person, and innocent people are killed every year as a result and it is unsuccessful as a deterrent. I personally believe it's wrong - wouldn't killing someone as a punishment for killing someone else make us just as bad as they are?
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Alienated.
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(Original post by Hellohsjakodsmka)
Well, you do have to think about the consequences. Will anything good actually come of it? Clearly the victim (of capital punishment) can't be rehabilitated and become a functioning member of society anymore. So, they won't be able to hurt anyone else ever again either, which has to be a good thing. But they're unlikely to be able hurt anyone again if they are simply imprisoned, too. Not only does imprisonment have the added benefit of being cheaper, but it also doesn't 'brutalise' the population as the literature seems to indicate capital punishment does. I can't really see any good reasons for it at all tbh. Some seem to think that some criminals just 'deserve' it but this seems to be a very difficult position to justify for anyone who is at all concerned with the suffering of other people.
If you look at America for example - it's more expensive than a life sentence, owing to the multiple appeals involved, you can't eliminate the risk of killing an innocent person, and innocent people are killed every year as a result and it is unsuccessful as a deterrent. I personally believe it's wrong - wouldn't killing someone as a punishment for killing someone else make us just as bad as they are?
So do you think instead of punishment, there should be rehabilitation? That no one is a lost cause?
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Alienated.
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#13
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
So just another user that can't form the most basic argument.
The first thing I said was 'in my opinion'. Not my fault if you can't tell the difference between opinion and facts. But let me give my 'proof'. If we had two serial killers, one gets 25 years, gets out and kills another person while the other sk gets the death penalty. That's one life saved and another lost.
Last edited by Alienated.; 4 weeks ago
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Alienated.)
The first thing I said was 'in my opinion'. Not my fault if you can't tell the difference between opinion and facts.
Opinions are generally based on something.
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Hellohsjakodsmka
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(Original post by Alienated.)
So do you think instead of punishment, there should be rehabilitation? That no one is a lost cause?
Yes, I simply can't see how punishment brings about anything good in a horrible situation other than fulfilling a lower, baser instinct for vengeance - which I do not see as outweighing an individual's right to continue existing. I think that even those who have committed crimes have the right to life (behind bars) so long as they pose no immediate threat to society (which is one of the main purposes of prisons), to take more life is a morally bad response to morally evil actions.
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Alienated.
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#16
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Opinions are generally based on something. Don't patronise me.
If you want me to see your point you're going to have to at least understand mine. I'm talking about your average criminal. Not your batsh*t crazy lunatic that doesn't care if they were to die today or tomorrow. Most people are afraid of death so the death penalty would act as a deterrent.

I'm pretty sure there's enough proof that people are afraid of death.

Think about it like this, once someone has committed a crime like murder, it's been done. Someone has lost their friend, father, daughter etc. So the death penalty would at least be some sort of closure for them. If the person who killed someone was just given a second chance how would the victims feel?
Last edited by Alienated.; 4 weeks ago
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Hellohsjakodsmka
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(Original post by Alienated.)
Think about it like this, once someone has committed a crime like murder, it's been done. Someone has lost their friend, father, daughter etc. So the death penalty would at least be some sort of closure for them. If the person who killed someone was just given a second chance how would the victims feel?
But when you look at it from the perspective of the people being executed and their families you realise there isn't one side to the story. Ironically the death penalty creates more pain! You hurt innocents with the death penalty not the criminal. How do you think a husband, wife, child and parents would react? They would be distraught.
Not only that but it's almost psychological torture, imagine being given a set date for your death as you arrive closer and closer to it, I imagine a lot would lose their minds, not to mention the families.
But of course you could say the same for the victim's family, although the point is that the death penalty gives a quick death to the criminal but slow and painful torture to the innocent family of the criminal. Who are we punishing the criminal or their family?
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LovelyMrFox
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(Original post by Hellohsjakodsmka)
...If you look at America for example - it's more expensive than a life sentence, owing to the multiple appeals involved, you can't eliminate the risk of killing an innocent person, and innocent people are killed every year as a result and it is unsuccessful as a deterrent. I personally believe it's wrong - wouldn't killing someone as a punishment for killing someone else make us just as bad as they are?
One could argue that a prisoner chose to kill someone innocent knowing full well the consequence would the the possibility of the death penalty whereas the victim of a homicide did not have that choice. To say that the two are the same level of morality is silly.
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Hellohsjakodsmka
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(Original post by LovelyMrFox)
One could argue that a prisoner chose to kill someone innocent knowing full well the consequence would the the possibility of the death penalty whereas the victim of a homicide did not have that choice. To say that the two are the same level of morality is silly.
Good point, they may not be innocent but killing them doesn't make us any better than they are imo. There could be so many reasons for people turning to crime. It is very complex so explaining crime simply through genes (for example) would be very reductionist.
We say we're doing it for a cause because they deserve it but think about all of those killers who say they do it for the same reason; because they don't "deserve" to live. Idk i guess I wouldn't judge anyone who believes the death penalty is okay, because honestly just being at peace knowing there is no possibility they could ever hurt anyone again is nice, but again, I don't condone it.
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Alienated.
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(Original post by Hellohsjakodsmka)
But when you look at it from the perspective of the people being executed and their families you realise there isn't one side to the story. Ironically the death penalty creates more pain! You hurt innocents with the death penalty not the criminal. How do you think a husband, wife, child and parents would react? They would be distraught.
Not only that but it's almost psychological torture, imagine being given a set date for your death as you arrive closer and closer to it, I imagine a lot would lose their minds, not to mention the families.
But of course you could say the same for the victim's family, although the point is that the death penalty gives a quick death to the criminal but slow and painful torture to the innocent family of the criminal. Who are we punishing the criminal or their family?
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0300475/..._=nm_ov_bio_sm
A serial killer + sex offender called John Wayne Gacy. Killing up to 33 people. If you were his family, would you feel any sympathy? I sure as hell wouldn't, yes family is family but it shouldn't excuse people's actions. How you were brought up may influence your actions but you can only go so far blaming your actions on the past.

I believe he was married too. He was imprisoned once or twice before facing the death penalty. Both of them being somewhere on the lines of sexual assault as well as hiring a thug to beat up one of the witnesses the first time he was imprisoned. To marry such a man makes me question whether or not the wife deserves sympathy. His last words were 'kiss my ass'. This and the fact that he's killed 33 people, shows to me that he doesn't feel any guilt or remorse for what he's done. No matter how they handled him, he would still be the same person. So imo it would do the world good and those 33 families to just get rid of him.

He was also ruled as sane. So he knew what he was doing. None of his crimes were provoked, he was looking to hurt people. Criminals like this deserve the death penalty.
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