Does it ruin the purpose

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#anonymous_user
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Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for gender equality, and see myself as a feminist. But, there’s so many people out there calling themselves feminists, but hating on men, and being essentially anti-men. It just confuses me because a ‘feminist’ is a supposed individual who fights for EQUAL rights, not more or less. So why then, do they go against the whole purpose, and just try to reverse feminist values? Like it doesn’t even make sense...
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SweetSexySavage
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Okay
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DiddyDec
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The clue is in the name, feminism is about women's rights.

Feminism - the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
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MaryamKH
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Well.... there’s extremists in ANY ideology or movement, literally EvErY sINgLe OnE. But that doesn’t mean it’s representative of the whole movement or wutever it is. They obvsly have had maybe personal experience, feel apathetic becoz we arguably can’t change our patriarchal system or just misinterpreted wut feminism is, I’m a very passionate feminist myself and disagree that “so many” are misandrists. Most don’t believe this or promote it do some in depth research and follow proper and widely supported feminist pages and you’ll probz understand better than I have said it or maybe even change ur mind and realise that most don’t advocate this at all and accly call out those who do xx although I agree with literally everything feminists advocate for, there r quite a few issues with the movement that I believe to be true but being predominantly man haters or wanting a matriarchal system isn’t one of them xx
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#anonymous_user
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
The clue is in the name, feminism is about women's rights.

Feminism - the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
Yup, I get what ur saying, but ‘equality of the sexes’ right? One isn’t better than the other. I’m a female myself, but sometimes it just confuses me why some people just advocate hatred to men in the name of feminism- by doing that aren’t they just turning people away from it?
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by #anonymous_user)
Yup, I get what ur saying, but ‘equality of the sexes’ right? One isn’t better than the other. I’m a female myself, but sometimes it just confuses me why some people just advocate hatred to men in the name of feminism- by doing that aren’t they just turning people away from it?
"On the grounds of" does not translate to full parity because that would silly.

Some people are just ****s, you get that in every umbrella movement.
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ashtolga23
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True feminists do want equality and they will advocate for both men's and women's rights. Extreme feminists ("feminazis") should not represent the movement, but are unfortunately a loud minority. These people do ruin the movement, just as angry vegans ruin that for those who are calm and peaceful. There's always that bunch, but you can't let it change your view of the cause if you can help it.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
True feminists do want equality and they will advocate for both men's and women's rights.
That is a logical fallacy, who are you to gatekeep feminism?
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ashtolga23
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
That is a logical fallacy, who are you to gatekeep feminism?
No, it's me using a dictionary definition to define a word.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
No, it's me using a dictionary definition to define a word.
We must be reading from very different dictionaries. Which dictionary are you using?
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beetrootsalad
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
No, it's me using a dictionary definition to define a word.
dictionaries are not good places to get the definitions of social movements as they're often a) behind, b) far too brief to actually cover anything, and c) it often varies group to group or person to person anyway. there are thousands of definitions of feminism and none of them are the One True Definition
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MaryamKH
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
No, it's me using a dictionary definition to define a word.
Couldn’t agree more, obviously woman advocate woman’s rights but apparently to some that looks like taking away rights of men. literally woman raise awareness and try to help male issues like toxic masculinity, high suicide rates, transgender and gay issues, or mental health etc.

To just add in, feminists have opened up to even more things esp intersectional feminism r caring for women,men, asexual ppl, youth metal Heath, disability ppl, race issues, homosexuals etc
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#anonymous_user
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(Original post by MaryamKH)
Well.... there’s extremists in ANY ideology or movement, literally EvErY sINgLe OnE. But that doesn’t mean it’s representative of the whole movement or wutever it is. They obvsly have had maybe personal experience, feel apathetic becoz we arguably can’t change our patriarchal system or just misinterpreted wut feminism is, I’m a very passionate feminist myself and disagree that “so many” are misandrists. But in fact most don’t believe this, do some in depth research and follow proper and widely supported feminist pages and you’ll probz understand better than I have said it or maybe even change ur mind and realise that most don’t advocate this at all and accly call out those who do xx although I agree with literally everything feminists advocate for, there r quite a few issues with the movement that I believe to be true but being predominantly man haters or wanting a matriarchal system isn’t one of them xx
That’s true, I understand what you’re saying. I get that they aren’t representative of the whole movement, and tbf I should’ve worded the original post in a better way. Obviously, there aren’t so many, but a few do promote matriarchy rather than equality. This just pushes people away from the main cause of feminism, and makes people be quite hesitant in supporting feminism - because they’re making feminism appear to be anti-men. So doesn’t this go against the whole feminist ideology of equal rights?
Also I’m sorry if I’ve come across/ am coming across as against gender equality and feminism - that’s definitely not my intention, and I genuinely am sorry if that’s the case.
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ashtolga23
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
We must be reading from very different dictionaries. Which dictionary are you using?
The one you sent still mentions "equal", so I think that would imply both sexes are at the same level rather than one being put down. All definitions I see mention "equality". Generally there is a focus on women because of historical oppression, but going by the premise that both sexes should be on a level playing field, men's issues should also be brought in.

(Original post by beetrootsalad)
dictionaries are not good places to get the definitions of social movements as they're often a) behind, b) far too brief to actually cover anything, and c) it often varies group to group or person to person anyway. there are thousands of definitions of feminism and none of them are the One True Definition
I admit that dictionary definitions are brief, and so perhaps limited, but they give a general overview and then you can delve into it from there. All definitions seem to agree that equality is central, so I don't think men should be put down according to what feminism actually is. Once we agree that equality is part of feminism, as every dictionary states, then we can talk more about it and cover more. It's like in Natural Moral Law, you have primary precepts that are fixed, and from there you develop secondary precepts; the secondary precepts will generally remain the same because they come from the same primary precepts, but they're not immutable, and will change according to circumstance and interpretation. There doesn't need to be 'One True Definition' for me to say that equality should occur in every real version of feminism.

(Original post by MaryamKH)
Couldn’t agree more, obviously woman advocate woman’s rights but apparently to some that looks like taking away rights of men. literally woman raise awareness and try to help male issues like toxic masculinity, high suicide rates, transgender and gay issues, or mental health etc.

To just add in, feminists have opened up to even more things esp intersectional feminism r caring for women,men, asexual ppl, youth metal Heath, disability ppl, race issues, homosexuals etc
I'm glad that you do! I definitely see that a lot with what I would call the most sensible feminists, and they possibly do make up the majority. Extremists just stick out because they're loud and shocking.
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#anonymous_user
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
True feminists do want equality and they will advocate for both men's and women's rights. Extreme feminists ("feminazis") should not represent the movement, but are unfortunately a loud minority. These people do ruin the movement, just as angry vegans ruin that for those who are calm and peaceful. There's always that bunch, but you can't let it change your view of the cause if you can help it.
Ahh, I get what you’re saying abt not letting them represent the movement, it’s just a shame that a lot of people go against the whole movement on the basis of these individuals
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ashtolga23
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(Original post by #anonymous_user)
Ahh, I get what you’re saying abt not letting them represent the movement, it’s just a shame that a lot of people go against the whole movement on the basis of these individuals
Completely. It's very disheartening, and one of the reasons that those I think of as "proper feminists" are generally so opposed to these extremists too.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
The one you sent still mentions "equal", so I think that would imply both sexes are at the same level rather than one being put down. All definitions I see mention "equality". Generally there is a focus on women because of historical oppression, but going by the premise that both sexes should be on a level playing field, men's issues should also be brought in.
So you weren't reading from a different dictionary, in fact you weren't reading from a dictionary at all.

Women can be raised to a level play field as men without men being raised to a level playing field in areas in which they are struggling.
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Apachecow
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https://youtu.be/xgiLm9bCxrU
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ashtolga23
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
So you weren't reading from a different dictionary, in fact you weren't reading from a dictionary at all.

Women can be raised to a level play field as men without men being raised to a level playing field in areas in which they are struggling.
I was reading from various dictionaries? I've seen plenty of definitions of feminism, and all of them concern equality.

You're misunderstanding the concept. It's about equalising the sexes. Admittedly there is a focus on women's rights because, in terms of rights, men have a massive historical advantage. However, to equalise the sexes you can't ignore either one of them.
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shak101
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In 2020 everyone is equal under the eyes of the law. These woke ideologies should be disbanded anyway.
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